1970 Full Brake Replacement - What speedbumps can I expect

[Jonah_fiddler]

Hey guys. I'm going to start replacing the brakes on my newly purchased bug tomorrow. I have all 4 wheel shoes, hardware, cylinders, brake lines, a new master cylinder, and I even bought the steel lines (if needed).

Any tips, tricks, issues, warnings, anyone could impart before I get started?

Thanks in advance!

[Cusser]

I did all that on my own 1970 VW back in late 2016, after it had been in retirement for 23 years.
Somewhere in my thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=664950&highlight=resurrection
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[viiking]

Adjust all shoes hard against the drums when bleeding.

Bleed fronts first.

Use a proper split ring spanner when removing brake lines. Soak the fitting tonight to help with removal tomorrow. They are usually rusty. If the fitting is wrecked consider replacing with your new lines.

Don't believe that new parts are actually going to work. If you hit a snag, don't discount that the new parts might be the cause!

Don't hesitate to come back on here and ask for help. Lots of willing helpers and some actually have the correct answers.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[Jonah_fiddler]

Thanks! Any step by step how to or YouTube video anyone can recommend? I'm having a hard time finding anything that outlines exactly what I'm replacing.

[jinx758]

I saw you mention lines twice but not hoses. These can look good on the outside but be perished on the inside. Also the hoses going from reservoir to MC.
Stopping reliably is important.

I cleaned the adjusters & put a dab of copper anti seize on them & haven't had a bit of trouble since. There's been multiple adjustments since.

Pay attention to details cuz the spreader bars are oriented a certain way, as are the adjusters. I've noticed a lot of Utube vids gloss over these details. I couldn't trust the former owner if my '71 that all was correct inside the drums. I found good, clear pics in The Samba Gallery.

Good luck ...stay safe

jinx
_________________
" It's not valuable unless you learn something from an experience. " Henry Ford

It's not unlike the same difference

You can't push a rope


VALVES (cold)
POINTS
TIMING
CARB (fully warmed engine)

SCRAPE ALL GROUNDS

My Craigslist rescued 100 footer :
1971 Standard Bug
1776cc dual port
034 distributor
38mm EGAS Carburetor

[OldSchoolVW's]

Try these links for some excellent videos to walk you through the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xfH5GJHG3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHMZhRLTRNM&list=RDCMUCut5i0tjCW-5Bg_mJtS-eRg&index=4


Consider converting to front disc brakes now while you're overhauling the whole brake system. Do yourself a big favor and buy a Torque Buddy/Torque Meister/Torque Dude torque multiplier tool to remove and reinstall the rear axle nuts. Safer, easier, faster and more accurate. Lots of cheap/inferior brake parts are out there even from vendors that have had a reputation for selling quality in the past. They can only sell what they can currently source. Consider Centric shoes/pads (try cpi1) and get ATE wheel cylinders. I found a pair of very nice German made rear drums at NAPA.

If you decide to replace your front wheel bearings while you're in there, check the inside diameter of the bearings. If your spindles have been replaced during the last 52 years, they may have used spindles from an earlier year that uses a slightly smaller bearing. Happened to me.

I know you're focused on the brakes right now, but consider putting "fuel hose replacement" near the top of your to-do list. Stock hose does not hold up well to the ethanol present in today's gas. Some vendors who still sell this hose are suggesting that it be changed at least once a year. Right, like any of us want to do that. Go to BelMetric and purchase their braided multi-fuel hose. While replacing the fuel hoses, relocate the fuel filter to someplace outside the engine compartment. Up front below the fuel tank on the passenger side works well and is easy to access when you need to change it.

I agree with viiking ... don't hesitate to come back to this forum with questions. Consider posting photos with your questions. Always helps to see what you're seeing. Good luck to you!
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[Cusser]

[TDCTDI]

Eh, I have never “bench bled” a master cylinder, it’ll piss the fluid out before you can ever get it in place or anything connected to it.


Adjuster screws are wedge shaped, installing them upside down causes brake issues.


Flare nuts like to seize onto the line, causing you to destroy the line if you’re not careful. A torch helps to release them, if you use a torch at the union attached to a hose, heat them until the hose pops, if you don’t, the hose can pop as you’re trying to disconnect them & cover you in boiling fluid.

You might want to source new parking brake lever retainer clips. They might break as you try to open them up to remove them.

Start all brake lines, by hand, into master cylinder & wheel cylinders BEFORE tightening the bolts securing the master cylinder or wheel cylinders, having that play makes it lots easier.


Do not remove the bolts securing the master cylinder, there are (should have) spacers to keep from crushing the “Napoleons hat”.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.

[Cusser]

[TDCTDI]

[jinx758]

x3.14 on previous advice & warning about the 2 bolts on MC !

When I did mine I put new parts in, filled reservoir, put an old towel under MC, & cracked fittings on MC. This bench bled the MC while in the car. Mite be unnecessary but I wanted to bleed all fittings just to be thorough.

Hope this helps ... stay safe

jinx
_________________
" It's not valuable unless you learn something from an experience. " Henry Ford

It's not unlike the same difference

You can't push a rope


VALVES (cold)
POINTS
TIMING
CARB (fully warmed engine)

SCRAPE ALL GROUNDS

My Craigslist rescued 100 footer :
1971 Standard Bug
1776cc dual port
034 distributor
38mm EGAS Carburetor

[nitro_rat]

It's a PITA to bleed. I got a bad master cylinder the first time on the last system I redid. Bench bleed the master first. Use plugs on the outlet ports and leave them in there until the master is installed into the car. swap the lines on quick, fast and in a hurry. Have the wheel ends done first. Bleed the fronts first as already mentioned.

I built my own "torque buddy." It's a piece of 2x2" angle iron about 4' long. Drilled for 5 lug on one end, 4 lug on the other. Drill Both webs of the angle iron so you can bolt it on in either direction. You'll have to notch a "V" between the lug holes. I keep 10.9 bolts and washers in a bag zip tied to the tool so that I can bolt it up snug without boogering the ball seat lug nuts. It will make sense when you hold the angle iron up to the drum what you need to do...

If you don't have a torque wrench that will go high enough, you can cut off a small piece of the angle iron and weld it to a stick of black iron pipe 4' long. Weld a 36mm socket to the angle iron. You can stand on a bathroom scale and pull up on the pipe. Ever how much your weight increases x4 is how much you're torquing the bolt...

[Cusser]

The warranty replacement master cylinder I installed Dec. 2020 did come with instructions to bench-bleed it.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=747133&highlight=1971+super+beetle

Even though I've not had trouble bleeding the brakes on my 1970 (since 1972) and 1971 (since 1976) VWs, I did rig up a pressure bleeding system, also in that thread above.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Jonah_fiddler]

[Jonah_fiddler]

[OldSchoolVW's]

Yes ... one thing does lead to another.

The idea of just getting your current brakes up to optimum for the time being would be a cost effective way to go. The bigger plans you have for the front brakes can snowball, and you may not want to get bogged down with something so involved at this time. But ... keep in mind that the master cylinder needed for a disc brake set up may be different than the one you have for the stock drum setup. I'm guessing you won't want to replace the master cylinder a second time. Can your front drums be resurfaced? If not, it is a significant added expense to replace them. Even brand new ones can be out of round and need to be turned. (Happened to me with German drums I got from WW.) Which is another added expense. Also more $$ if you need to replace the front wheel bearings. Your best bet is get the fronts taken apart and see how the bearings look and if the drums can be turned. This will give you an idea if you your going to end up spending more than expected to service the stock drum brakes. If so, you may want to spend the money on the drop spindle/disc break project now.
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[Jonah_fiddler]

[bomberbob]

You mentioned you bought new hard lines, steel? Take them back and swap for the nickel/copper or whatever these new lines are. Very easy to bend by hand without kinking, and they don't corrode.
I read through all the posts, all good ideas. If you do all this stuff its probably the collective VW lessons learned of 40 years.
I tried bleeding my brakes with my wife operating the pedal. Gave up, just was not getting all the air out. Pressure bled this last weekend, bubbles out of drivers rear. I already had the bleeder, had to buy the adapter for the reservoir.
_________________
1968 Beetle (storage)
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in heavy maintenance)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[vwoldbug]

Make sure the brake adjusters are free.

[Jonah_fiddler]

So, I finally had time to start the brake job. I definitely know now why the bug pulled so hard to the left when braking, the shoes are literally crumbling in my hand and the entire area is covered in fluid. Fairly certain the brake cylinder is shot and leaking, good thing I’m replacing everything.