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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:18 pm Post subject: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Manley has taken a wrong turn!
I phoned them last week asking about their NEW single-keeper groove Type IV valves--a true departure from typical production that has been the VW 3 groove keeper configuration which they no longer offer.
I asked the tech on the other end of the phone what single-groove keepers they recommend for Type IV applications and he didn't have any recommendations. Which leaves the pervasive question: if their going to depart from stock-specified valve retention then they should be able to recommend a suitable keeper?
Why Manley? Because they're the lightest stainless valves in the marketplace and I'm all-out race (no can do Titanium for the cost)
Does anybody here have any experience with 7-degree single groove 8mm keepers ? I'm not finding much out there. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26789 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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the keepers are on page 55
13094-16 16 pr. 8mm (.3135”) Single Radius Chevy LS, LT1 (.050”)
13098-16 16 pr. 8mm (.3135”) Single Radius Chevy LS, LT1 (Std.)
13095-16 16 pr. 8mm (.3135”) Single Radius Chevy LS, LT1 (.050” more)
here is the catalog
http://www.manleyperformance.com/dl/cat/catalog.pdf |
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wheel607 Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004 Posts: 1847
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Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Just a note......Manley in my opinion hasnt been any good for a few years now. You see when I built a set of type 1 heads I just said Manley valves. Boy, was I ever wrong. You see, Manley buys ASIAN valves it sells to vendors and doesnt even tell them why their price is cheaper. The valves made by Manley in the US are far superior with stretch and are usually back ordered. You have to order right then WAIT. They are about $15 each, more, when you can get them. I feel Manley has pulled a flim flam by not telling the customer this. You assume that all the valves are made in the USA.......not true. Maybe, if it matters to you, you should ask Manley where these type 4 valves are made. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26789 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Keepers are like a collet....only fits a narrow range of size correctly.
Most problems I have seen with keepers.... have to do with the keepers not matching the size of the valve stem.
But far as the retainer..... 7 degrees is 7 degrees, so rarely any problem with that side, tho might sit higher or lower depending on what parts you mix. |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:09 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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The Keepers will most likely will be the larger O.D. and not fit standard VW three groove retainers. The retainers CB sells to fit their single groove keepers are boat anchors at 22 grams. I don't like the direction the market is going with the single groove design. |
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VWporscheGT3 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006 Posts: 2076 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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wheel607 wrote: |
Just a note......Manley in my opinion hasnt been any good for a few years now. You see when I built a set of type 1 heads I just said Manley valves. Boy, was I ever wrong. You see, Manley buys ASIAN valves it sells to vendors and doesnt even tell them why their price is cheaper. The valves made by Manley in the US are far superior with stretch and are usually back ordered. You have to order right then WAIT. They are about $15 each, more, when you can get them. I feel Manley has pulled a flim flam by not telling the customer this. You assume that all the valves are made in the USA.......not true. Maybe, if it matters to you, you should ask Manley where these type 4 valves are made. |
Race winning brands owns Manley, JE, Wiseco, and a few others... thats just piston brands. when the Conglomeration companies own these brands they start standardizing across the board... and its the customer who gets the sh*t end of the stick. if the company was still family owned and operated the likelyhood of maintaining a standard in product would be far greater than being owned by RWB. _________________ Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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great comments as I don't have word-of-mouth up here to rely on. The marketplace is changing so fast and I am outside the fringe of communication with other consumers in our industry so this really helps, just wish we had more choices anymore. I got a set of Type IV valves from Scat awhile back but never used them because they were quite a bit heavier. Rely on valve head mass for strength rather than alloy?--a big problem at 7500rpm!
Something else I'm considering: has anyone tried using 5/16" spring retainers instead of 8mm? Alot more choices/quality available in the aftermarket for 5/16. So long as they're wedged with 7 degree 8mm keepers, right?
Last edited by michla on Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:54 am; edited 4 times in total |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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I'm using PAC retainers and locks on my Manley single groove valves. The retainers fit on some springs without mods, while a few options require some lathe work to narrow the outer step. _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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bugguy1967 wrote: |
I'm using PAC retainers.... |
Their online catalog shows mostly 10's, not alot of choices in 7's
Last edited by michla on Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
The Keepers will most likely will be the larger O.D. and not fit standard VW three groove retainers. The retainers CB sells to fit their single groove keepers are boat anchors at 22 grams. I don't like the direction the market is going with the single groove design. |
No doubt to save production costs. The only reason for the 3-groove design was to allow the stock-application valves to rotate (seat life) with butted keepers--which the aftermarket knows few of us utilize anymore. |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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modok wrote: |
the keepers are on page 55
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thanx but...WOW!
$100 for a set of keepers??? :2gunfire: |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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I always grind VW keeper so the valves spin very little or not at all. Solve’s a more important problem than wether valves spin or not. Of coarse on a stock engine I leave them alone but I don’t build stock engines anymore so I always grind them now. |
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RCP Phx Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2021 Posts: 496 Location: Phoenix,AZ
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Dan Ruddock wrote: |
...I don’t build stock engines anymore so I always grind them now. |
true. I've been getting mine from Berg (GB 344) for about $35 and they're made not to butt together |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Thanks! super informative |
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Wreck Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014 Posts: 1218 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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michla wrote: |
Thanks! super informative |
Probably not helpful because I’m guessing you already have rocker geometry/pushrods etc already sorted but just in case .
I’m using LS3 valves , stock exhausts and turned down intakes . 47mm and 40.5mm approx. PAC Racing beehives with their keepers and tool steel retainers . The valves and springs are longer and need approx 8mm “shims” under the rocker posts . It is on a street engine with over 20000km on the valves train .
I did a short course time trial last month with the engine bouncing off the rev limiter at the end of the short straights (7500) . The hard to see little blue light over the tacho is a shift light at 7200
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7vJFvUTegYI |
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Jason37 Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004 Posts: 1028
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Guess I got lucky, ordered blindly last year.
Last edited by Jason37 on Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4343 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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It's PAC L8142-16 lock. The retainer is titanium - PAC R550 _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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bugguy1967 wrote: |
It's PAC L8142-16 lock. The retainer is titanium - PAC R550 |
ah i see--you went to 8 degree locks/retainers |
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michla Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003 Posts: 331 Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Manley Type IV Racemaster Valves |
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Jason37 wrote: |
Guess I got lucky, ordered blindly last year.
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gold mine right there! |
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