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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16861
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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so you are having OTA issues?
i suppose if the mfgr has a deal with ins, co's to report driving habits that could be an issue.
at any rate i won't own a car with that garbage. thankfully i know people who know people and can program that stuff right out of the system
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| dodger tom wrote: |
i'm with skills and others who say, there's not enough information. being a driveway mechanic and not a pro like a lot of the posters, my response is we don't know enough about your communication with the mechanic and vice versa.
that being said, three months later!!! is this something you expected? if so, okay, if not, RED FLAG.
and the 10 more hours. any reasons/explanations as to why that's so?
my experience with professionals is that rusted bolts and broken studs are built into the book they reference for estimates. they make out on some jobs (no broken bolts) and get squeezed on others (more than one broken bolt).
in california, going over the estimate takes consultation with, explanations to, and the agreement of the consumer.
you probably signed a contract with a lien agreement, so tread lightly, but i think, absent clear communication from the pro with an apology for the too-low-initial estimate, that i wouldn't go back there. |
I pretty much follow this model. I give a text when I start amd a text when I finish , in four hour intervals. I usually don’t work for longer than 4 at a time due to age. My last clutch I told them I would need two weekends and did four hours each Saturday and Sunday. And finished on schedule.
My book rates don’t include time for broken stuff. When that stuff happens I offer new part with a delay, or a used part for less money and no delay. Customers break about 50-50 on that choice. I usually know which way they will go based on personality. Sometimes I’ve already made the decision. 😀
On topic…you haven’t been ripped off foranything, you have an estimate. Once the job is done, only the mechanic knows if the hours are honestly billed.
I just did an XC fuel pump with a 2 hour tank drop, book is 10 hours. Do I get to charge the estimate or just the time? Only you and the Creator know.
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.ssS! |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| People ask me how much? |
People ask me: “What's wrong with my Bus?”
I answer: “It's old”
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SL |
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RalphWiggam
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2018
Posts: 906
Location: SouthEast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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If I have done it recently with a fresh memory I can pull my engine in about 45 minutes.
Install it in about 1 hour. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| so you are having OTA issues? |
Yes.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16861
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
I just did an XC fuel pump with a 2 hour tank drop, book is 10 hours. Do I get to charge the estimate or just the time? Only you and the Creator know. |
i tell people they are paying for the years of experience to do it right the first time, not the hours.
classic example is i start at 2.5 hours per axle for brakes. why? because this:
then i get hit with "the shop down the street can do it for less"
the look on peoples faces when i say "ok, bring it" is priceless. i don't run a fucking flea market.
i have finally gotten to the point where I have chased out all of the youtubers and bottom feeders.
just remember:
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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dodger tom
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2013
Posts: 1264
Location: Central Coast, CA, but we're all still Ukrainian
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
I pretty much follow this model. I give a text when I start amd a text when I finish , in four hour intervals. I usually don’t work for longer than 4 at a time due to age. My last clutch I told them I would need two weekends and did four hours each Saturday and Sunday. And finished on schedule.
My book rates don’t include time for broken stuff. When that stuff happens I offer new part with a delay, or a used part for less money and no delay. Customers break about 50-50 on that choice. I usually know which way they will go based on personality. Sometimes I’ve already made the decision. 😀
On topic…you haven’t been ripped off foranything, you have an estimate. Once the job is done, only the mechanic knows if the hours are honestly billed.
I just did an XC fuel pump with a 2 hour tank drop, book is 10 hours. Do I get to charge the estimate or just the time? Only you and the Creator know. |
i wish you were closer, steve.
_________________
1978 Champaign Edition Westfalia
Would never find the time to keep up another classic air-cooled. |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3576
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
| People ask me how much? |
People ask me: “What's wrong with my Bus?”
I answer: “It's old” |
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76897
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
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Damn.... was it sitting in salt water for years?
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
| People ask me how much? |
People ask me: “What's wrong with my Bus?”
I answer: “It's old” |
That's a start; but truthfully VW just marketed some things that were very poorly tested/ not up to the task.
Like:
Every 1972-73 type 4 engined bus broke the exhaust valves. With ensuing severe mechanical trauma. ATE's lasted longer than Eatons.
Carbs on those cars worked well, but not long.
After a few years, nearly all FI cars had leaking fuel hoses and MANY burned.
These may have been one of the BEST narrow road vehicles ever built. (Well, number 2.) but they have MAJOR shortcomings.
Repowering has been a major subject since Hobert Kennedy first built an adapter. Was it the 1970's. I talked to him a few times in the 1980's.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| dodger tom wrote: |
my experience with professionals is that rusted bolts and broken studs are built into the book they reference for estimates. |
Book time is the time it takes to replace the part on a new vehicle. Nothing is factored in to the time for issues that may come up during the repair.
Thats where you get fucked on book time is the issues you encounter along the way. |
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Sash_Bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2022
Posts: 47
Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| It is what it is. You pay to play, or you don't play. OR....you learn to do it yourself. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16861
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Damn.... was it sitting in salt water for years? |
2017 sooobaroooh daily driver. evidently, never washed
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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| Back to top |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| dodger tom wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
I pretty much follow this model. I give a text when I start amd a text when I finish , in four hour intervals. I usually don’t work for longer than 4 at a time due to age. My last clutch I told them I would need two weekends and did four hours each Saturday and Sunday. And finished on schedule.
My book rates don’t include time for broken stuff. When that stuff happens I offer new part with a delay, or a used part for less money and no delay. Customers break about 50-50 on that choice. I usually know which way they will go based on personality. Sometimes I’ve already made the decision. 😀
On topic…you haven’t been ripped off foranything, you have an estimate. Once the job is done, only the mechanic knows if the hours are honestly billed.
I just did an XC fuel pump with a 2 hour tank drop, book is 10 hours. Do I get to charge the estimate or just the time? Only you and the Creator know. |
i wish you were closer, steve. |
Thanks Tom. Colin offered but the cost of gasoline to get here and go home left nothing for him. This inflation is changing the world.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| ToolBox wrote: |
Book time is the time it takes to replace the part on a new vehicle. Nothing is factored in to the time for issues that may come up during the repair.
Thats where you get fucked on book time is the issues you encounter along the way. |
Book times on new cars varied quite a bit from reality.
My brother was a Porsche-Audi tech at a dealer in Omaha that also had Renault. He LOVED working on Renaults because he could beat book time the very first time he did a job. Kinda low quality cars but way easier to work on than your average 928 Porsche.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3576
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
| ToolBox wrote: |
Book time is the time it takes to replace the part on a new vehicle. Nothing is factored in to the time for issues that may come up during the repair.
Thats where you get fucked on book time is the issues you encounter along the way. |
Book times on new cars varied quite a bit from reality.
My brother was a Porsche-Audi tech at a dealer in Omaha that also had Renault. He LOVED working on Renaults because he could beat book time the very first time he did a job. Kinda low quality cars but way easier to work on than your average 928 Porsche. |
Yes, so many things 'tucked' away in the lovely curves of the front fenders, you didn't realize it until you opened the hood on a 928 and looked down the sides of the Engine Compartment- all the things Porsche could create 'custom' to match the body curves, but made it much harder to remove or install. 
Still, you forgave it to a certain extent when you fired up that V-8 after getting all done with the work.... 
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| jlrftype7 wrote: |
Thats where you get fucked on book time is the issues you encounter along the way. Yes, so many things 'tucked' away in the lovely curves of the front fenders, you didn't realize it until you opened the hood on a 928 and looked down the sides of the Engine Compartment- all the things Porsche could create 'custom' to match the body curves, but made it much harder to remove or install.
Still, you forgave it to a certain extent when you fired up that V-8 after getting all done with the work.... |
Quite possibly true. I know I have that feeling from my puny 3.0 911SC after not driving it for a while. "yeah, baby"!
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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The devil is in the details, a blind estimate at 20 hrs and a 50% adjustment later..could very well be a fair bill. A month is a bit long but who knows what they are up against trying to get other cars out of the shop. the parts situation is dire in all directions
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Fat chick owner/operator |
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Shonandb
Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019
Posts: 1172
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
| jlrftype7 wrote: |
Thats where you get fucked on book time is the issues you encounter along the way. Yes, so many things 'tucked' away in the lovely curves of the front fenders, you didn't realize it until you opened the hood on a 928 and looked down the sides of the Engine Compartment- all the things Porsche could create 'custom' to match the body curves, but made it much harder to remove or install.
Still, you forgave it to a certain extent when you fired up that V-8 after getting all done with the work.... |
Quite possibly true. I know I have that feeling from my puny 3.0 911SC after not driving it for a while. "yeah, baby"! |
Something like this?
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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Cap10323
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2016
Posts: 604
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Am I getting ripped off by the mechanics? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
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Stop stop, I'm going to start having flashbacks to the hundreds of hours I've spent bludgeoning rusted Subarus apart. 
_________________
-Ian
'77 Westfalia - 2.0 F.I |
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