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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:33 pm Post subject: Setting my 72 up |
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My 72 Westfalia had a replacement 411/914 1.7 a number of years ago.
This unit has the dip stick coming out of the top which makes it a tight squeeze to check.
It has had a CB performance twin Solex 32/34PDSI3 kit fitted (fitted badly as the carburettor joining pipe was never connected!) and a 009 distributor with a sports exhaust.
I need help on setting the timing and setting this carburettor set up as I feel that the garage who has been maintaining this vehicle hasn't got as much knowledge on this engine as they are making out.
I need base settings for the carburetors and explanation on what screw does what?
Also I have the gauge on the front of the large pulley for timing marks but I am not convinced the marks on the pulley are correct as this engine has the bung above to facilitate timing.
Sorry about how vague I am but it has been over 30 years since I last worked on one of these engines (73 kombi 1.7 automatic).
Thanks
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2536
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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Start here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
There is another thread centermount carbs don’t suck. Lots of good info.
For an automatic, you will need to t off the big vacuum tube to your brakebooster and vacuum unit on the transmission if you have the earlier automatic. I ran one for a few years on my 73 automatic and it worked reasonably well for the spring through early fall fair weather driving I do. |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| orwell84 wrote: |
Start here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
There is another thread centermount carbs don’t suck. Lots of good info.
For an automatic, you will need to t off the big vacuum tube to your brakebooster and vacuum unit on the transmission if you have the earlier automatic. I ran one for a few years on my 73 automatic and it worked reasonably well for the spring through early fall fair weather driving I do. |
This is not a centremount carburettor it is a twin carburettor setup.
Just looking for base settings as I believe the hole setup is screwed up.
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wildDogPizza
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2017
Posts: 81
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| heyskull wrote: |
My 72 Westfalia had a replacement 411/914 1.7 a number of years ago.
This unit has the dip stick coming out of the top which makes it a tight squeeze to check.
It has had a CB performance twin Solex 32/34PDSI3 kit fitted (fitted badly as the carburettor joining pipe was never connected!) and a 009 distributor with a sports exhaust.
I need help on setting the timing and setting this carburettor set up as I feel that the garage who has been maintaining this vehicle hasn't got as much knowledge on this engine as they are making out.
I need base settings for the carburetors and explanation on what screw does what?
Also I have the gauge on the front of the large pulley for timing marks but I am not convinced the marks on the pulley are correct as this engine has the bung above to facilitate timing.
Sorry about how vague I am but it has been over 30 years since I last worked on one of these engines (73 kombi 1.7 automatic).
Thanks
SC |
With regard to the fan timing marks vs the timing scale on the fan shroud, I believe that all the fans have the #1 tdc mark in the same place. The other mark may be in different locations based on the factory recommended distributor timing. You can verify that the raised mark is visible in the shroud hole when the mark on the pulley is lined up with 0 on the scale, and time using the timing scale.
The hole is best for when the motor is in a 914 where a scale on the shroud would be very difficult to see.
Some timing lights have an offset feature that you could time down the hole in the shroud using the tdc mark, but I haven't tried it actually — no need with a bus (especially a 72 like yours or mine) with a timing scale.
Here are 2 fans I have, there may be more out there
From a bus CB motor
from a 914/412 EA motor
_________________
"Sliced Bread" 68–73 Bus Part Finder |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| wildDogPizza wrote: |
| heyskull wrote: |
My 72 Westfalia had a replacement 411/914 1.7 a number of years ago.
This unit has the dip stick coming out of the top which makes it a tight squeeze to check.
It has had a CB performance twin Solex 32/34PDSI3 kit fitted (fitted badly as the carburettor joining pipe was never connected!) and a 009 distributor with a sports exhaust.
I need help on setting the timing and setting this carburettor set up as I feel that the garage who has been maintaining this vehicle hasn't got as much knowledge on this engine as they are making out.
I need base settings for the carburetors and explanation on what screw does what?
Also I have the gauge on the front of the large pulley for timing marks but I am not convinced the marks on the pulley are correct as this engine has the bung above to facilitate timing.
Sorry about how vague I am but it has been over 30 years since I last worked on one of these engines (73 kombi 1.7 automatic).
Thanks
SC |
With regard to the fan timing marks vs the timing scale on the fan shroud, I believe that all the fans have the #1 tdc mark in the same place. The other mark may be in different locations based on the factory recommended distributor timing. You can verify that the raised mark is visible in the shroud hole when the mark on the pulley is lined up with 0 on the scale, and time using the timing scale.
The hole is best for when the motor is in a 914 where a scale on the shroud would be very difficult to see.
Some timing lights have an offset feature that you could time down the hole in the shroud using the tdc mark, but I haven't tried it actually — no need with a bus (especially a 72 like yours or mine) with a timing scale.
Here are 2 fans I have, there may be more out there
From a bus CB motor
from a 914/412 EA motor
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My engine has been replaced with one out of a 411 or 914 which only use the hole on top and I cannot see into it.
The fan shroud of the original engine has been replaced so it still has the scale but no markers on the face of the fan wheel.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| Somewhere there are instructions on marking your pulley for use in a bus, likely on Ratwell's site. Just takes a ruler, a marker pen of some sort, and a triangular file. |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Somewhere there are instructions on marking your pulley for use in a bus, likely on Ratwell's site. Just takes a ruler, a marker pen of some sort, and a triangular file. |
What are the two marks?
I guess I will have to take off the fan shroud to mark it?
Thanks
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wildDogPizza
Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2017
Posts: 81
Location: Southern Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Somewhere there are instructions on marking your pulley for use in a bus, likely on Ratwell's site. Just takes a ruler, a marker pen of some sort, and a triangular file. |
I think this is the write up you are talking about.
https://ratwell.com/technical/FindTimingMark.html
It seems like it's making what is very simple seem complicated, but maybe it will help.
To the op, I did explain what the second timing mark is with illustrations.
Personally I am a fan of the chopstick method. Put a chopstick down the spark plug hole, turn the motor using the alternator nut, and feel for when the piston reaches tdc. Look at the distributor, and if the distributor rotor is pointing toward #1 spark plug wire, that is #1 tdc. If the rotor is pointing toward the #3 sparkplug wire, turn the motor another 360, and it should be pointing to #1. This will be #1 tdc.
File a mark on the lip of the fan pulley that lines up with 0 on the scale and paint a white line there. Verifying the mark with a mirror and/or flashlight shows in the fan shroud hole will ensure that you are dead on.
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"Sliced Bread" 68–73 Bus Part Finder |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| heyskull wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Somewhere there are instructions on marking your pulley for use in a bus, likely on Ratwell's site. Just takes a ruler, a marker pen of some sort, and a triangular file. |
What are the two marks?
I guess I will have to take off the fan shroud to mark it?
Thanks
SC |
The "0" mark is for TDC and the "I" mark is the timing mark, which can vary a bit from application to application, for a Type 4 car engine it is 27° BTDC. |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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Thanks for the timing help will try and sort it this weekend.
Has anyone any help on setting the CB performance twin Solex 32/34PDSI3 kit that is installed on this van?
Thanks
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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OK after a little further fiddling today I found that the distributor cap central carbon contact was missing!
So I have replaced it and it is a little better and the smell of fuel has disappeared.
Still poping away on that cylinder and it makes very little difference when you pull that HT lead of when running.
What should my next course of action be? I was thinking check the valve gaps and see if I can find a compression tester.
This is all very old school to me and I am enjoying the tinkering.
I have started to remember things that I should of checked in the first place.
thanks
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| Check again that you have your spark plug wires in the correct order. Very easy to get them on wrong. |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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The plug leads are in the he correct order.
Something isn't right on number 1 cylinder.
Maybe valves, piston rings or something else!
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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Spray carb cleaner for vacuum leaks at the base of the manifolds, and very vacuum line connection. What manifolds come with the CB kit? The power brake fittings can leak, even on the original German style.
You could also try swapping plug wires around, to eliminate a bad wire from the equation.
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| airschooled wrote: |
Spray carb cleaner for vacuum leaks at the base of the manifolds, and very vacuum line connection. What manifolds come with the CB kit? The power brake fittings can leak, even on the original German style.
You could also try swapping plug wires around, to eliminate a bad wire from the equation.
Robbie |
I have tried all this it seems as if it is either a burnt valv or uoled pisto,n but not enough blow back from that.
The van has been in storage for 6 years could it be something stuck?
Thanks
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| I like to add both FI cleaner and an upper cylinder wall lubricant to my fuel when I put a rig back in service after only sitting a few months as ethanol laced fuel does not age well. |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| I like to add both FI cleaner and an upper cylinder wall lubricant to my fuel when I put a rig back in service after only sitting a few months as ethanol laced fuel does not age well. |
Sadly I do not think any of that was carried out.
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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I have decided to change all the plugs as this probably would be a good start.
Sadly I am struggling to find any local suppliers for these.
What plugs do I need for a 1972 type 4 1700 motor?
Prefer Bosch or NGK as I can remember back in the day the air cooled stuff just didn't like champion plugs
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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NGK BP6ET. They won’t leak combustion like Bosch, and the triple electrodes mean you don’t have to worry about gap.
Robbie
_________________
Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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heyskull
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2022
Posts: 170
Location: Cumbria, England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:24 am Post subject: Re: Setting my 72 up |
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| airschooled wrote: |
NGK BP6ET. They won’t leak combustion like Bosch, and the triple electrodes mean you don’t have to worry about gap.
Robbie |
Sadly I'll put what I can find...lol
In the UK there is obviously a spark plug famine....lol
EC |
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