40hp vs 1600sp stock look and reliable

[jacobcallaghan]

Hello,

I know this topic has been talked a-lot about. I have read through almost every thread on the topic. This leads me to a couple questions and advice.

After recently having some motor issues in my 61 double door I am ready to go all in and build the motor for the long haul.

The bus is a camper so pushing a bit of weight. But nothing exceptional.

Speed is not an issue. My boxes to check are reliability, fuel economy and correct look.

So my initial plan was run a 1600sp and dress it up as close as I can to a stale air 40hp. And run a 30 pict, 40hp dizzy and stock 1600 exhaust.

After thinking about all that would go into getting a "stock looking 1600". it occurred to go 40hp.

I am really looking for some advice of people that have a lot of miles behind both platforms.

I have driven a ton of miles on 1600sp platform and have been very satisfied with the performance. Would 40hp be a huge step down?

My bug has a 40hp and has been the most reliable engine I have ever had. Plus I get 32mpg. But thats in a bug...

I only have one 40hp bus and it runs like a top and is plenty fast for me. But its an empty panel not a built camper.

Any advice welcomed. If this topic has been beat to much. Feel free admins to delete my post
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58 mango
60 Indian Red Bug
61 SWR double door
61 Double Cab
61 23 Window
62 Camper

[Tizian]

I would opt for the 1600sp.

In my opinion there is no better stock looking engine than this one plus you have the doghouse cooling shroud.

When it comes to more weight, you'll be happy with every extra hp. Especially when driving in mountain regions.

I built one myself from an industrial engine and I am pretty happy with it.

Looks pretty much stock (edit: on my 67):

I get something like 25 mpg currently. But I believe I can still improve a bit.
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02/24/2022

The saddest day in recent history. My thoughts are with all those people suffering from the aggression of only one individual.

[RWK]

Most people that will look at your engine have no clue what size it is, if you want to make it look like a 40, ask yourself what it is that sets the two apart.
I would want the 1600, but the 40 hp pushed a lot of buses around for a long time
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73 Type 181
63 Type 113
63 Type 261- 428 071
62 Type 241-378 025 178 530

[Lind]

I got into 40hp bus engines for the cheap mufflers. The engines are pretty cheap too, but that is for used engines. I would guess that building a new one is about the same cost as a 1600.

Most of the time, you are using 40hp or less to push your bus. If you run a 40hp engine, everything else needs to be stock, gearing, tire size, etc.

I drove my 40hp bus 800 miles last weekend with a full load of swap stuff. With the headwind, roof rack and extra engine on the way out, I was cruising at 50mph. With the tailwind and having unloaded the rack and engine, I was cruising back home at 65mph. Of course hills slow me down.

You can also compromise by going bigbore 40hp.
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Wanted:
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.

[Clara]

At one time a picked up a 59 truck with a blown engine, and acquired a running 40hp, so I put them together. The truck had little nut boxes, and pulled hills really really well, but screamed above 55 mph. It also got 28 mpg! I was pretty happy with it. Gas cost less then, FWIW.

If you have a stock 61 tranny, a 40hp works well.

Generally I've buildt a 1600sp with doghouse.
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The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/

[pyrOman]

Stroke it!

A mild stroker can be made to “look” like a 40 horser quite easily. Better torque for a camper bus. It’s not about going fast, it’s about pulling the weight with ease. A 74 to 76 millimeter crank will require minimal to no clearance in a stock case. Good luck with your project.
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.

[Eric&Barb]

[Walk Thru KO]

[BulliBill]

Since you are asking for our opinions, here is mine. I bought a gorgeous old weathered original SWR paint June of 1959 Double-Door Panel Bus in storage in a north Texas barn from a buddy back in 2000, complete except for a rear bumper and the original "Bastard" 40hp engine. But I had a used normal 1961-ish 40hp engine complete in my garage storage that was reputed to run when the Bus it was in was parted out by friends. It ended up being a marriage made in heaven! I had the rear bumper too.

I never thought once about any powerplant in that stock Panel but an original 40hp engine, and I even had a couple of good 1600 engines lying about in storage too. Nope! Not for me. The original "Bastard" engines were recalled by VW after a couple of years and lots of folks received a slightly later "normal" 40hp engine, or some had their "Bastard" engine modified/updated by their VW dealer to be reliable. So the 1961 40hp engine that I already had in house was about perfect in timeline to be in place to power my Panel.

After a thorough clean-up (NOT a rebuild!) and new tune-up items and fuel lines the engine fired right up and purred like a contented kitten. Into the Bus she went, and has been getting me around rather nicely for the past 22 years and has never let me down yet. But I drive it like the period 63 year old vehicle that it is, I keep my top cruising speed as mentioned in the owners manual to 50 or so mph. I take over and I own the right lane and all the other assholes and speed freaks on the road can pass me on the way to their accidents. I slap my "SLOW MOVING VEHICLE" magnet on my rear hatch and no one so far has been pissy with me, usually I get a lot of "thumbs up" from those who pass me.

Simply put, my stock Panel Bus seems very happy if driven as designed, and could probably be driven a bit harder, but why?

I have a '67 Westy SO-42 with a 1600 stock-ish engine if I want to go a little faster on the highway, an '87 Westy with a 90hp stock engine if I want to go even faster, and a '59 Double-Cab with a totally stock 36hp engine too. I like and vote for a well-built stock engine and drive it as it was designed to be driven. They are pretty damn reliable that way.

Now talk amongst yourselves!

Bill Bowman
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!

[Eric&Barb]

[BarryL]

[galexander]

This is what I am running in Jerry the Bus, a very mild 1776.
It runs cool, smooth and all day long across Texas and into New Mexico, Arkansas and Colorado.

After chasing my tail for many years, this seems to be the absolute perfect set up for a loaded down Camper with full rack and gear.

Gary

30PICT1
Stock Bus Exhaust, stock Heat exchangers
205K
Sparxwerx flat top fuel pump
Petronix-wires, module, coil
DH Shroud, Hooverbit, 36mm fan, DH Oil Cooler

SCAT
Type I Universal Dual By-Pass Engine Case - 90.5 mm / 92 mm
3/8" I-Beam Connecting Rods with 8740 Bolts
Mahle Type 1-3 Forged Piston & Cylinder Kit - 69, 90.5

CB Perf
040-105-271 040-105-271 12 Volt Flywheel - OEM
1105 1105 4140 Forged Chromoly Crank (69mm Stroke) VW Journals
1804 1804 Main Bearings STD
1865 1865 Rod Bearings Type-1 STD
1880 1880 Camshaft Bearing Set - fits 40hp-1600cc
1362 1362 End Play Shim Kit
1625 1625 Aluminum Super Duty Push Rods (11.500" Length) Blank End (set of
1300 1300 Barrel Shims (.060") 90.5 & 92mm
1727 1727 Oil Cooler - fits '71-on Type-1 & 2
1791 1791 Maxi Pump 2 - w/Filter Mount (up to '70)
1973 1973 Gasket Set - 13, 15, & 1600cc Dual & Single Port Engines
1941 1941 Rear Main Seal - 13, 15, & 1600cc
1569 1569 Push Rod Tubes (Unplated) - fits 13-1600cc engines
1436 1436 Stock Camshaft - to fit 40hp, 13-1600cc
1512 1512 VW Valve Lifters (set of
1251 1251 Cylinder Head Studs (8mm) Single Port
1278 1278 CB High Performance Case Kit
1901 1901 Engine Hardware Kit (without Head Nuts)
1946 1946 Posi-Seal Cam Plug
1298 1298 Barrel Shims (.030") 90.5 & 92mm
1299 1299 Barrel Shims (.040") 90.5 & 92mm
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enjoy the journey,
Gary
Check out our YouTube Channel, VW Life

[jacobcallaghan]

thank you for all the responses. I really appreciate the feedback. I think I will build a 1600sp.

I have an almost new dual relief aluminum case laying around in the shop. Might just assemble up from there with new crank, pistons, heads, ect...

Thanks again samba for all the advice.
_________________
58 mango
60 Indian Red Bug
61 SWR double door
61 Double Cab
61 23 Window
62 Camper

[johny__utah]

@galexander Stock exhaust on a 1776? I'm considering removing my Vintage Speed for a stock unit. I'm also running a mild 1776 in my camper. Was always told not too..
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1956 L31
1961 L346 L347
1963 L380 L289

[jacobcallaghan]

Heyo,

So the 1600 sp that was in my bus pulled the head studs out sadly. It was a random old rebuilt motor i got from a buddy.

So I put an old 40hp from my 62 in the bus. (putting a 1641 DP in that bus) Motor ran great for about 300-400 miles and then seized on my way to Utah. lol. I knew the bottom end was tired but rolled the dice and lost.

Anyways I am now ready to pull the trigger on ordering and building the engine to go the distance. Thoughts on this set up? Most of it comes from the CB website. From my reading they seem pretty trust worthy.

CASE: I have a good used dual relief aluminum case. Looks pretty much new.
CAM: I was thinking a CB performance stock cam? Or should i go for a mild performance cam? Like engel 90? or 100? New lifters to mach as well. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1436.htm?CartID=8
PISTONS: I was thinking the mahle 85.5s
CRANK: Forged Chromoly https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1105.htm?CartID=2
RODS:CB Perfomance Stock Rods
OILPUMP: New from CB
HEADS: Now I was thinking of running some good used heads with new valves and springs. There appears to be no single port heads in stock anywhere?
CARB: 30 pict 1
EXAUHST: Stock
OIL COOLER:New Dog House

How does this setup sound? Really looking for reliability and fuel economy. Not speed. When I was driving my bus with the 40hp I was cruising at 50mph and happy as a clam!

Thanks for all the help!
_________________
58 mango
60 Indian Red Bug
61 SWR double door
61 Double Cab
61 23 Window
62 Camper

[Eric&Barb]

[Bonesberg55]

I had a 23 window Samba with a 40hp back in the mid-70s. MPG was about 25 but top speed was only 62 MPH and that was downhill. That same engine rebuilt and installed in a '65 Beetle netted me 34 MPG. That's quite a difference. I had a 1600 SP in a '79 Beetle and only got high 20s MPG. I do think the 40hp was a good motor.

[Tizian]

Did some adjustments on carb and timing. Now I get 29 mpg with my 1600sp in my 67 deluxe. That‘s not too bad in my opinion…
_________________
02/24/2022

The saddest day in recent history. My thoughts are with all those people suffering from the aggression of only one individual.

[EJZero1]

[Bonesberg55]