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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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 Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:07 am Post subject: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Just went to change my worn out FAG front top bushes with Lemforders only to find them a loose fit. I can literally turn them by hand .🤔😲 |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| Just went to change my worn out FAG front top bushes with Lemforders only to find them a loose fit. I can literally turn them by hand .🤔😲 |
It' possible your UCA went loose after replacing them once, especially if the FAG were a tight fit and that the Lemfoerder are a loose fit.
Being made in China like their ball joints, the QC is hit and miss depending on the batch, so who knows....
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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The FAG were a tight fit but the rubber inners started to spue out the sides less than a year later and excessive play ensued (maybe the weld damaged them). A had meyle's they lasted longer than the FAGs but now there inner rubber started to crack and need replacing. Maybe I should go with Febi next time as I heard they use good quality rubber in their parts .
Last edited by Nitramrebrab72 on Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Powerflex FTW. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| Powerflex FTW. |
X10
couldn't agree more
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Microbusdeluxe 
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2003
Posts: 980
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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There is no need to weld the bushes in place. Install them then mark their position with a paint stick. You'll see that they don't rotate. Or get poly bushes.
_________________
'69 Squareback RIP
'65 21 window deluxe sold before the price spike, damn it.
'70 rhd bay now a taxi in South Sudan
'81 Westy sold
'89 hightop Westy Joker syncro 16" now with Bostig! |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
| There is no need to weld the bushes in place. Install them then mark their position with a paint stick. You'll see that they don't rotate. Or get poly bushes. |
I thought the same but the Lemforders I just received were loose . I could turn them by hand literally. They would fall out if I shook the wish bone on the work bench .
I agree the ones with the nylon insert shouldn't be welded. |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1645
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
| There is no need to weld the bushes in place. Install them then mark their position with a paint stick. You'll see that they don't rotate. Or get poly bushes. |
Just had to re-weld them as the weld broke and it queaked badly.
To OP: aftermarket ones are different in size. Like JPGRoup is much thicker than Lemforders.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7DpdNN3cU3Hmyyra7
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| ZsZ wrote: |
| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
| There is no need to weld the bushes in place. Install them then mark their position with a paint stick. You'll see that they don't rotate. Or get poly bushes. |
Just had to re-weld them as the weld broke and it queaked badly.
To OP: aftermarket ones are different in size. Like JPGRoup is much thicker than Lemforders.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7DpdNN3cU3Hmyyra7 |
Jesus, that's 1.21mm difference in diameter!! 
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1645
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| ZsZ wrote: |
| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
| There is no need to weld the bushes in place. Install them then mark their position with a paint stick. You'll see that they don't rotate. Or get poly bushes. |
Just had to re-weld them as the weld broke and it queaked badly.
To OP: aftermarket ones are different in size. Like JPGRoup is much thicker than Lemforders.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7DpdNN3cU3Hmyyra7 |
Jesus, that's 1.21mm difference in diameter!! |
Yes that difference easily can stretch the hole in the control arm.
Somewhere I have some used OEM Lemforders with the VW logo. I will try to find them. I assume the new Lemforders are the same as they were.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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[quote="ZsZ"]
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| ZsZ wrote: |
| Microbusdeluxe wrote: |
| There is no need to weld the bushes in place. Install them then mark their position with a paint stick. You'll see that they don't rotate. Or get poly bushes. |
Just had to re-weld them as the weld broke and it queaked badly.
To OP: aftermarket ones are different in size. Like JPGRoup is much thicker than Lemforders.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7DpdNN3cU3Hmyyra7 |
Jesus, that's 1.21mm difference in diameter!! |
No it is impossible to permanently stretch a 4mm thick metal structure that has 10mm+ 90° returns on the wishbone with a hollow 0 .75mm thin sheet steel insert.
For 2 simple reasons A. The wishbone is way stronger than the bush. and B . Even if the bush was made of a solid piece of hardened steel the 1.21mm oversize is way to small to permanently stretch the hole, as soon as it was removed it would regain its precise original shape.
No something is up with the Lemforder manufacturing process. |
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ZsZ
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 1645
Location: Budapest Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
No something is up with the Lemforder manufacturing process. |
I had to press in the Lemforder ones and it was not easy. Probably I could not press in the thicker JPG bushes.
IMO the Lemforder is the original size.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008 |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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JPGroup for example are the only suppliers of
ball joints that come complete with the proper clip and nylon protector washer for the rubber gaiter, not even TRW(OEM) (that I recomend)supply them with their ball joints. Even though I don't feel confident in their (JPGroup)quality I do in their attention to detail ie. correct diameter. Does anyone have an Old Stock original VW partnumbered manufactured by Lemforder bush to compare with an after market Lemforder bush? |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
JPGroup for example are the only suppliers of
ball joints that come complete with the proper clip and nylon protector washer for the rubber gaiter, not even TRW(OEM) (that I recomend)supply them with their ball joints. Even though I don't feel confident in their (JPGroup)quality I do in their attention to detail ie. correct diameter. Does anyone have an Old Stock original VW partnumbered manufactured by Lemforder bush to compare with an after market Lemforder bush? |
What is this nylon protector washer? Is is inside the boot? If so, Febi has them too.
I've never seen them in VW- TRW or VW-Lemfoerder ball joints.
Anyway, these days anybody should buy them from T3technique.
I can measure original VW bushings, early ones were made by BOGE, with a steel washer instead of the white plastic washer. The BOGE ones looked much better quality. In fact I replaced a set for a customer who wanted everything renewed (Powerflex), I saved them, they still have grease and are still tight from 1983 I will confidently add gresers to them and reuse them one day on one of my personal vans 
Also note the early UCA don't have clearance on the side of the bushing to support the arm with a tube to extract them, they corrected this later on. Very annoying, you have to cut a piece of the lip to extract the old bushing.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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The white nylon washer it protects the rubber boot from rubbing .
Thanks for the pic. Any chance of measuring the diameter ? |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The old BOGE bushings measure 35.55mm at the snout, 35.75mm to 36.1-36.2mm where it's closest to the shoulder.
Remember, it's used. I think 36mm is correct before pressing in. |
Wow! Thanks for this info . It will come in useful |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The old BOGE bushings measure 35.55mm at the snout, 35.75mm to 36.1-36.2mm where it's closest to the shoulder.
Remember, it's used. I think 36mm is correct before pressing in. |
Wow! Thanks for this info . It will come in useful |
Boge 87-613A Is a more recent part no. and they specified 35.5mm in their parts description. I will measure the Lemforders and put it out there. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
The old BOGE bushings measure 35.55mm at the snout, 35.75mm to 36.1-36.2mm where it's closest to the shoulder.
Remember, it's used. I think 36mm is correct before pressing in. |
Wow! Thanks for this info . It will come in useful |
Boge 87-613A Is a more recent part no. and they specified 35.5mm in their parts description. I will measure the Lemforders and put it out there. |
Wow, how did you find this Boge part number? I looked quite good on the internet, I thought they were not making them anymore. Even with the part number, almost nothing comes up...
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Nitramrebrab72
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 485
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Top Lemforder Bushes Loose |
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On the Lemforder(Zf) website
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