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BMFBMF Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2020 Posts: 358 Location: Swtzerland
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:54 pm Post subject: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Hi folks,
These are the original rear rims from my 1300 71. Are those 5x205s? Same as 1967 model year in the rest of the world? What does the 205 stand for?
I replaced these drums many years ago. They now seem oval. I'm trying to get new 5x205s but there seems to be a shortage in Europe.
Anyone able to recommend a brand/supplier?
Also which brake shoes should I get for these drums , 40mm?
Without taking everything apart it's a bit of a pain with this "in between model"!
thanks.
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34021 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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I don't have an answer, just a caution to everyone that Euro models have different equipment than USA models, so beware!
Those wheels you have are not slotted. USA wheels gained slots starting in '66.
USA '67 Bugs all had 5-lug wheels and drum brakes, and the rims had 10 slots, and no "safety humps." Euro Bugs that had the 1500 engine USUALLY (but not always, depending on destination country) had front discs and the 4-bolt, 8-slot wheels front and rear.
So a '71 with a 1300 and 5-lug wheels is unknown in the USA.
I would bet that, unless someone has an identical model, you will have to pull a drum and measure the shoe size.
5x205 refers to the bolt pattern: 5 bolts, 205mm diameter, aka "wide fives."
By the way, another wheel issue has to do with "safety humps. '67 and older cannot run radials without running inner tubes, according to VW:
Your wheels look like they have the "safety hump" on them.
No slots plus humps is an odd combination!
Last edited by KTPhil on Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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viiking Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013 Posts: 2668 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Wheel nut patterns are measured as "Pitch Circle Diameter" i.e. PCD. That is 205mm.
Here's a simple explanation.
https://konigwheels.com/wheel-info-tech/what-is-pcd/ _________________ 1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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vwoldbug Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009 Posts: 1214 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Is there a reason you can't get them resurfaced and when the drums are off measure the shoes. |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Are you sure they you have a 1971 model year car? Post your chassis number. Even the RoW Standard 1200 beeetles went to 4 bolt wheels in 1968 iirc. So, your combination is very unusual. But, having said that, you should be able to get the drums by buying 1965-67 205pcd drums. I suspect the brake shoe width will be the same as the 65-on beetles (not Supers).
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=131609237C
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=131609537C _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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BMFBMF Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2020 Posts: 358 Location: Swtzerland
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:50 am Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Thanks for the input folks, yes it's a 71, my dad bought it new.
In fact you can see the 71 date stamps on the wheel rim! I did not note that before taking the picture!
Being south african its a bit different to the rest of the worlds ones, serial numbers also. (they alll start with "SAF" on chassis and engine)
I've not been able to find a brake shop here in switzerland, and I'm fairly sure that if I did, the cost of machining would be more than new drums unfortunately. I'm sure the drums are dodgy though as I have had them machined in the past in south africa (where it was cheap but maybe of quesiotnable quality...)
Last edited by BMFBMF on Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BMFBMF Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2020 Posts: 358 Location: Swtzerland
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:01 am Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Interesting info about the radials.
Mine seem to have the bump to hold the bead (just looking from outside).
Excuse the mess , ths iwas before i cleaned it up, there were lots of dirt roads in SA.
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Maddel Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2013 Posts: 935
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34021 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:20 am Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Maybe it's a reflection in the shiny silver paint, but it almost looks like there is a "crease" in the part of the wheel between the mounting flange and the rim. The curve doesn't quote look "VW" to me!
One thing I'm learning on my Bus is that drums with the same bolt pattern, splines, and diameter my differ in a critical dimension: between the inner flange and the outer shout, due to changes in the stub axles. For example, I think '67 USA models got "long axles" and this created a change in the drum, though I'm not sure. And of course, yours is a non-USA car.
This all makes it very hard to give advise!
I suggest you measure this distance like I did, and compare it to the new drum (or ask the vendor to measure theirs):
Oh, and looking at an enlargement of your photo, it shows "4J"; the "J" means it has the safety humps. |
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alex857 Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2010 Posts: 714 Location: Stuttgart/Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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Hi, as posted before, European beetles dropped five lug wheels in 1967 (1500) and 1968 (all models). We are obviously looking at a RHD South African car. They kept 5 lugs but I am not sure whether the drums from older European cars fit. Have a look at South African parts dealer websites. |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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South African VWs kept some features going longer and some had unique features. But I’d bet that the drums are the same as the older VW bugs elsewhere. _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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BMFBMF wrote: |
Are those 5x205s? Same as 1967 model year in the rest of the world? What does the 205 stand for? |
KTPhil wrote: |
5x205 refers to the bolt pattern: 5 bolts, 205mm diameter, aka "wide fives." |
Here are some pics that illustrate how to measure PCD. It is easy when there are even number of lugs as you can just measure the centers of the opposing studs. But when there are odd number of studs it becomes more difficult.
Note in the second diagram method where you have a 5-lug wheel you measure the outer edge of one stud to the center of the opposing one.
5x205mm is a rather unique wheel PCD used by mostly VW and early Porsche cars.
I would mention that in addition to drums from '67-earlier Beetles you can also find 5x205mm drums on VW Things from the early '70s. These were drums with wider shoes, like the '69-later Beetle drums. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: 71 europe beetle rear brake drums. |
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ashman40 wrote: |
Note in the second diagram method where you have a 5-lug wheel you measure the outer edge of one stud to the center of the opposing one.
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The method for the 5 wheel PCD measurement is incorrect. Thought exercise - if you increase the wheel stud/lug diameter - what happens to this measurement?
Byas _________________ 1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
Click to view image
1965 Karmann Ghia Coupe - under restoration
1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
1952 Citroen TA 11BL |
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