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Paul Hatfield
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:57 pm Post subject: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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I have my engine out for repairs, and was planning on cleaning the fuel injectors in an ultrasonic cleaner. Plan was to clean them up, test spray pattern and also use a vial and test output volume.
But, perhaps my bus has a different plan.
Please see the attached photos, for the nice array of different colors and part numbers of the injectors.
two of them are a shade of teal, one more faded than the other, and are part number 280 150 114
One is gray, and 280 150 106
The three above appear to be the same nozzle and length.
The other one is only stamped ram. That is the pink one. It is shorter as you can see by the graph paper, and it looks to have a nozzle in the output. Guessing the spray pattern could not match the others.
So, since I am not a fuel injector guy, I'd like advice as to if these make a good set to clean up or if I need to search of replacement of some of them.
Thanks in advance.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Paul Hatfield
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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Yes, I checked his charts but did not see 280 150 106 or the RAM injector. Did that before asking the question. Kind of hoping the 106 might have been for a different application but the same pintle and volume, just different hose connection. If that's true, I can keep it- and if not, out she goes. I can't imagine the RAM one being right, but wanted to get input.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Paul Hatfield
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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The bus is new to me, and of course, I searched for a long while to find one with minimum rust. Happily, I did find one with a solid body. However, about 15 miles into my ownership, #3 intake hit the piston. Seat had come loose.
So, I have now a great set of pistons balanced to within one tenth of a gram, freshly rebuilt original heads from NW Connecting Rods, and many other parts, none of which was planned for.
As for the injectors, the mis-match is a surprise, but certainly not the first one, and likely not the last. I would like to understand these part numbers though. It would appear that two are original, and the others may not belong in there at all.
Photo of the engine waiting for the injectors is attached.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51145
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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If I was in that deep I'd spring for a set of new ones myself.
Out of curiosity what cylinder was the rouge injector installed on?
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Paul Hatfield
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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When I tore it all down I bagged/tagged all of it. I have done the same things on the 356's I have owned/own. Anyway, I am confident it was on #4 but the damage occurred on #3. Photo shown. None of the pistons showed a lean condition.
We are excited to get the bus back on the road. It is a 77, the same year my wife and I were married. When we had small kids, we had a sunroof bus then, so this s/r bus brings back memories.
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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replace the piston. The head can be welded and ground if it is damaged. Didn't NW connecting rods look at the seats when they were doing the other work? Usually they peen them, it isn't the best solution but certainly more than 15 minutes.
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Paul Hatfield
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Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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Piston was replaced. So were both heads because I found that not only did one seat come out, but there was a small crack at the exhaust valve. Original heads that were good cores were rebuilt, but they were not the original ones to this bus. Hope that makes sense.
Heads were cc'ed, pistons balanced, and compression ratio set to 8.0 after checking deck height.
Photos below show the cleaning, which on the pistons included measuring the rings and cleaning the landings. Then they went to the scale to get balanced.
This is not really an engine rebuild, but it's a pretty comprehensive top end repair with cleaning to everything.
Beautiful day here (Whidbey Island, Washington). Headed out for a club drive with the 356.
Again, thanks everyone for advice.
Paul
Hoping to maybe find a set of original fuel injectors that have been rebuild and tested, or a couple more that I can get done.
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Injector-Rehab
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Joined: March 11, 2021
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Location: New Jersey
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jtauxe
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Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:16 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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Well, ain't that a sexy little setup!
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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Paul Hatfield
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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Here is the status on my injectors-
After continued research and looking at my injectors (all four in photo above), I noticed that the light gray one had two part numbers, a different one on each side! In the top photo above it shows a part number ending in 106.
Notice on the other side the part number ends in 031D, a totally different number than on the other side of the injector.
Then,,, I found this table here on The Samba:
The table shows the gray injector is fine for my 77 2.0, so that gave me 3 injectors known to be properly applied. I then got lucky and found one other to clean and install, so my project is now progressing forward.
I need to buy good fuel line and correct, not pinching hose clamps, and then the installation of the injectors will be complete!
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ToolBox
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Joined: January 27, 2004
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Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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gates barricade high pressure for the injectors and fuel pump to rails back to FPR. I just used it for the whole length including the larger size for the fuel pump to filter. it doesn't evaporate fuel slowly thru the hose like earlier hoses do. I used to be able to always smell a lite amount of fuel before going to it. Now none. use the clamps that have a rolled shoulder or those that are crimp to close.
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Paul Hatfield
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Joined: April 17, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: Whidbey Island, Washington
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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Thanks Steve. Everything on order now. Busy this coming weekend, but hope to have the bus back running the following Sat./Sunday.
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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Oh, man that EV14 injector upgrade is SO nice.
For a few reasons:
1. Old injectors get worn out, corroded, clogged, and generally crappy over time.
Yes, you can have them cleaned and ‘flow matched’ but they’re never really that great.
2. Newer tech with better atomization results in a more complete burn - more power, better efficiency. Probably pay for itself in a couple thousand miles.
3. Rubber hoses at the injector are eliminated. Thank God. A notorious weak point at the barb there making leaks inevitable is gone!
4. No more square-profile o-rings that aren’t compatible with ethanol fuels degrading and causing air leaks.
I’m not affiliated in any way,
Just super excited to see this solution.
Here’s something to eliminate a weak point in our vehicles that has gotten worse and worse…!
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MuzzcoVW
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Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1474
Location: Westfield, MA.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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| I see all the injector upgrades listed above, but for something more economical there's the option of the OE style injectors that have a modern pintle design. I'm using these in my bug and they've been great. I didn't even know they existed until I ordered a set from Rock Auto and saw the design. However in fairness there's nothing wrong with rebuilt originals. They're super easy to rebuild with the kit from injector rehab. As far as the square O ring and ethanol I haven't seen any issue here personally. There was a post on another brand forum about an improved O ring to use under this style injector...but I can't find it right now |
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Injector-Rehab
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2021
Posts: 27
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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| MuzzcoVW wrote: |
| I see all the injector upgrades listed above, but for something more economical there's the option of the OE style injectors that have a modern pintle design. I'm using these in my bug and they've been great. I didn't even know they existed until I ordered a set from Rock Auto and saw the design. However in fairness there's nothing wrong with rebuilt originals. They're super easy to rebuild with the kit from injector rehab. As far as the square O ring and ethanol I haven't seen any issue here personally. There was a post on another brand forum about an improved O ring to use under this style injector...but I can't find it right now |
Another option to convert an EV1 injector that is made for an o-ring connection vs the barbed end would be these adapter kits we offer:
https://injector-rehab.com/product/hose-end-adapter-hat-for-ev1-injector/
An economical way to use a newer-ish injector that can had at any junk yard.
Another option we offer is a cleaned and flow tested O-ring injector with a video of how to convert that O-ring injector into a hose-end style if you didn't want to simply buy the adapter hats.
https://injector-rehab.com/product/diy-hose-end-injector-kit-19lb-4-hole-each/
Link to YouTube video (also found in the link above)
https://youtu.be/CN1I1CEtado |
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MuzzcoVW
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 1474
Location: Westfield, MA.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Injectors in 77 2.0 |
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| Injector-Rehab wrote: |
| MuzzcoVW wrote: |
| I see all the injector upgrades listed above, but for something more economical there's the option of the OE style injectors that have a modern pintle design. I'm using these in my bug and they've been great. I didn't even know they existed until I ordered a set from Rock Auto and saw the design. However in fairness there's nothing wrong with rebuilt originals. They're super easy to rebuild with the kit from injector rehab. As far as the square O ring and ethanol I haven't seen any issue here personally. There was a post on another brand forum about an improved O ring to use under this style injector...but I can't find it right now |
Another option to convert an EV1 injector that is made for an o-ring connection vs the barbed end would be these adapter kits we offer:
https://injector-rehab.com/product/hose-end-adapter-hat-for-ev1-injector/
An economical way to use a newer-ish injector that can had at any junk yard.
Another option we offer is a cleaned and flow tested O-ring injector with a video of how to convert that O-ring injector into a hose-end style if you didn't want to simply buy the adapter hats.
https://injector-rehab.com/product/diy-hose-end-injector-kit-19lb-4-hole-each/
Link to YouTube video (also found in the link above)
https://youtu.be/CN1I1CEtado |
Thanks for leaving this info! I'm building a larger engine using the factory FI in my bug and may use the CB performance intake runners that require new style injectors. I wasn't crazy about using their fuel rails because they're in your face large and I'm looking to keep it as factory looking as possible. |
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