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Correct clutch cable?
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Who.Me? Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:58 am    Post subject: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

What's the correct clutch cable for a big nut transmission (H-code) in a split-case bus/truck (October '56)?

My clutch cable broke yesterday and I replaced it (with difficulty Confused ) with this one https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/eu/211721335b-clutch-cable-3116mm-for-left-hand-drive.html Part number 211-721-335B (3116mm)

After feeding the new cable through; at 'rest' the tip of the threaded end fell just short of the clutch arm on the gearbox.

Eventually; I managed to pull the arm down to take the slack out of it and got the wing nut on the few threads that were then projecting through the arm. Thankfully; I have long skinny arms. Laughing God knows how anyone shorter or chunky would manage that with the engine in.

I've tightened the nut down so there is about 1/2 inch of threads projecting beyond the nut. That gave about an inch of 'play' at the pedal, but that 'play' is just less resistance before the pedal 'firms up' (it's soft of 'springy', then hard to press). With the old cable the pedal freeplay felt 'dead' (no resistance).

I need to adjust the new cable some more, but if that 'dead' feel I had with the old cable was the freeplay they describe in the manual, rather than the springy feel I have with this new cable, it will mean unwinding the nut to effectively lengthen the cable.
That will leave even less thread projecting beyond the nut.
I had to take the slack out of the arm to get the cable hooked up, so I'm not sure that I've got enough adjustment left to get that 'dead' freeplay.

Should the freeplay feel 'dead' or 'springy'?

Is/was the difference just due to stretch in the old cable, or have I got a cable that's fractionally too short? The only other LHD cable I've found online is the '59-61 cable (211-721-335/C) that is 6mm shorter which would have made the problem worse.

Are all new cables this 'tight'?

The clutch doesn't seem to be slipping with the pedal up, but the bite point feels really high and the bite point feels much shorter than the old cable's.

For what it's worth; I have the clutch cable bowden tube at the gearbox end and it looks to have about the right amount of 'dip' in it.
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Lind
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

The first thing to look at is the clutch cable tube where the forward end of the bowden tube mounts. Gently pry on it to see if it has broken loose the weld on the body. It is a common issue, and it has to be attached to the body for the other stuff to work.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
The first thing to look at is the clutch cable tube where the forward end of the bowden tube mounts. Gently pry on it to see if it has broken loose the weld on the body. It is a common issue, and it has to be attached to the body for the other stuff to work.


Thanks Lind. It seemed secure when I was putting the new cable in. I didn't notice the conduit moving, but I wasn't looking for it.
I had to take the bowden tube out to feed the cable through it and had a real fight to get it back in. I had to put the gearbox end in first and use a screwdriver to lever conduit end on. I'll have a proper pry at it tomorrow to check.

That does remind me that the front end of the conduit broke free of its foremost mounting tab a while ago though (long before I replaced the cable).

Up front it's a straight shot for the cable from the pedal to the tube and the tube is secured through the crossmember several inches back. Is that likely to be contributing though?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
That does remind me that the front end of the conduit broke free of its foremost mounting tab a while ago though (long before I replaced the cable).

Up front it's a straight shot for the cable from the pedal to the tube and the tube is secured through the crossmember several inches back. Is that likely to be contributing though?
I have not had any problems up front. I agree that the front is more of a straight shot. I think the back is where the action is happening.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
The first thing to look at is the clutch cable tube where the forward end of the bowden tube mounts. Gently pry on it to see if it has broken loose the weld on the body. It is a common issue, and it has to be attached to the body for the other stuff to work.


When I had this happen in my VG/BW '65 SO-42 Westy in ~1999, on a road trip. I took two spare hose clamps for the big end of the axle boot, and threaded them together around the torsion tube and the clutch cable tube. It immediately improved the clutch action and firmed it up.
Drove like that till I sold the bus in 2006. It went to the UK, and by the time I sold it I had forgotten about it.

This bus:
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
After feeding the new cable through; at 'rest' the tip of the threaded end fell just short of the clutch arm on the gearbox.


When doing this did you have the clutch pedal bungeed in the all up position?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Who.Me? wrote:
After feeding the new cable through; at 'rest' the tip of the threaded end fell just short of the clutch arm on the gearbox.


When doing this did you have the clutch pedal bungeed in the all up position?


No, but that's a great tip. At first; it was well short of the clutch arm, but I grabbed the cable with my vice grip pliers and yanked on it. I heard the pedal bang in to the upright position in the cab.

At one point; I did consider trying to tie a loop/stirrup on one end of of some long cordage and tie the other end to the clutch arm, so I could use my foot to lever it down to take the slack out of the it.
Eventually I managed to get both hands jammed up in the space and lever the arm down with my middle fingers, while feeding the cable through it with my little fingers/pinkies and screwed the nut on with my thumbs. I had to disconnect one heater cable to make enough room to get both arms up in the space though. Note to self - need to reconnect that. Confused

I call bullshit on anyone who says that's an easy job to do by the side of the road. Evil or Very Mad

It was the first time I'd done it, so maybe took a little longer than usual, but it took half an hour just to get the old cable out. The inside diameter of the bowden tube at the conduit end was slightly smaller than the threaded end of the cable, so jammed up inside the tube (my wire cutters couldn't cut the last few strands of the old cable that it was hanging on by, so I had to pull it through with the end still on).

I eventually had to lever the bowden tube out and 'unscrew' it off the cable. I could see thread marks in the inner sheath of the tube at the conduit end where, so whoever put the cable in apparently had the same issue. (That doesn't appear to be part of the problem though - the cable moves freely through the inner sheath of the tube, it was just the threaded ferrule that is wider than the cable which got stuck on the way through.)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

Who.Me? wrote:
Should the freeplay feel 'dead' or 'springy'?

Only a little bit of pedal should feel springy then solid "dead" push the rest of the way to down. Usually if you can go into reverse without gnashing it is good enough.

Who.Me? wrote:
Eventually I managed to get both hands jammed up in the space and lever the arm down with my middle fingers...

When it is quiet you can hear a click-clunk as the throwout bearing hits the pressure plate contact ring. It should have little to almost zero slack to be fully good (in my opinion).

I made this tool from a garage door spring safety wire to pull with one hand while I mess with the throwout lever lying on my back.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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Who.Me? wrote:
I eventually had to lever the bowden tube out and 'unscrew' it off the cable. I could see thread marks in the inner sheath of the tube at the conduit end ...

Yes when the bowden is installed and curved the long threads get forced at an angle against the "conduit" . I use a 1/2" chuck drill motor at the front and turn the cable in (with grease on the full length) as it is fished into the tube.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct clutch cable? Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Who.Me? wrote:
Should the freeplay feel 'dead' or 'springy'?

Only a little bit of pedal should feel springy then solid "dead" push the rest of the way to down. Usually if you can go into reverse without gnashing it is good enough.


Spent some more time in the comfort of the garage re-adjusting the cable. Have managed to get it so that I have some of the freeplay that I felt with the old cable. There are just a few threads projecting from the nut, but it feels better at the pedal.
I'm guessing the old cable had stretched a fair bit, because the nut was basically half way down the ferrule before. I didn't trust having it backed off as much as it is, but it seems to feel right.

Who.Me? wrote:
I eventually had to lever the bowden tube out and 'unscrew' it off the cable. I could see thread marks in the inner sheath of the tube at the conduit end ...

Yes when the bowden is installed and curved the long threads get forced at an angle against the "conduit" . [/quote]

Ah. That makes sense.
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