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pre67vw Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2003 Posts: 93
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:18 pm Post subject: Semaphores |
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Hi All, I’d like to learn a little more about semaphores… I’ve seen the page with all the part numbers listed, but I still have questions.
I think the first Beetle semaphores (excluding anything kdf) were ‘sided’ in that each had a L and a R on them and the ends were sloped. Then some time in ‘49 (anyone know when?) they ditched the sided and became just ribbed (SWF) or grooved (HS).
Is it correct that the ribbed had two screws on the cover and the grooved had 4 rivets? Why do some have SWF logo on the lens and some have VW?
Then I have read that Zwitters had ribbed semaphores with a single screw, but I have one of these with what I think is a Dec ‘50 date code - can that be right?
Then the next version was the smooth cover.
What is a short arm or a long arm?
Then there are the convertible versions… when did these start? as most split Cabrios I’ve seen (and Hebs) have sedan semaphores, but I have seen photos of the elusive Cabrio semaphore with a VW logo on the frame (obviously not from another marque)
Thanks! _________________ --------------------------------------
www.pre67vw.com
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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The first ribbed, universal SWF (not left or right) came out in mid 1950. The first version had a a single screw and the end of the steel arm/cover wrapped around the end of the lens, and a sheet metal type screw there. This version did not have the sliding bulb access door underneath, you had to take the arm/cover off to change the bulb. These sems are fairly rare, especially the lenses since they are unique to this model.
Sometime in early '51, the more common ribbed one came out, 2 screws and the brass sliding bulb access door.
Later, the SWF was modified again. It had 2 screws, but one was hidden underneath the steel arm. It was a beveled screw that fit flush to the inner steel pivot arm. This allowed the removal of the arm with a single screw and the lens would stay attached.
Other details were the dropping of the side to side tabs at the top of the steel pivot arm sometime in 1952.
I have been restoring early sems for 15+ years and keep a spreadsheet of each sem I get get my hands on, the date code of it, and the details that it has. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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mk-Zero Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005 Posts: 350 Location: Orange, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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johnshenry wrote: |
The first ribbed, universal SWF (not left or right) came out in mid 1950. The first version had a a single screw and the end of the steel arm/cover wrapped around the end of the lens, and a sheet metal type screw there. This version did not have the sliding bulb access door underneath, you had to take the arm/cover off to change the bulb. These sems are fairly rare, especially the lenses since they are unique to this model.
Sometime in early '51, the more common ribbed one came out, 2 screws and the brass sliding bulb access door.
Later, the SWF was modified again. It had 2 screws, but one was hidden underneath the steel arm. It was a beveled screw that fit flush to the inner steel pivot arm. This allowed the removal of the arm with a single screw and the lens would stay attached.
Other details were the dropping of the side to side tabs at the top of the steel pivot arm sometime in 1952.
I have been restoring early sems for 15+ years and keep a spreadsheet of each sem I get get my hands on, the date code of it, and the details that it has. |
Great info! _________________ Vintage Classic Specialist, Orange, CA
www.VCSresto.com
[email protected]
1952 VW Standard beetle
1955 VW Type 1, 231 hp daily driver
1956 VW Karmann Convertible Okrasa |
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pre67vw Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2003 Posts: 93
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Yep, great info, thanks John!
So this:
Am I correct in thinking this is date code MB is December '50?
What month/year did the sided semaphores end?
How does this semaphore differ from the later zwitter sem that I think also has a single screw? _________________ --------------------------------------
www.pre67vw.com
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Last edited by pre67vw on Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Yes, that is the first version of the "longnose" SWF sem, dated MB, Dec 1950. It does not have the sliding bulb access door underneath, very rare to find these with usable lenses. The earliest date coded versions of those I have seen is June 1950. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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pre67vw Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2003 Posts: 93
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Thanks John.
So what does ‘longnose’ refer to? _________________ --------------------------------------
www.pre67vw.com
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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pre67vw wrote: |
Thanks John.
So what does ‘longnose’ refer to? |
I call them that as the steel arm wraps all the way around the "nose" end of the lens. This semaphore is seen in the Sept 1950 Service manual. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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ThatVWGuy Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2001 Posts: 418
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Should a '51 Beetle have ribbed or smooth semaphores? |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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ThatVWGuy wrote: |
Should a '51 Beetle have ribbed or smooth semaphores? |
Either SWF ribbed, or SHO grooved. But not smooth. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Böm Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2012 Posts: 32 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Regarding the first version SWF ”longnose” sem. Is there anyone making new lenses for them? |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Böm wrote: |
Regarding the first version SWF ”longnose” sem. Is there anyone making new lenses for them? |
Unfortunately, no. _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Dean Bradley Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 438 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:28 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Gentlemen
Do you know if Grooved SHO pre 1951 semaphores are sided/ Handed ? My car is missing a drivers side SHO grooved semaphore, and has a original one fitted on the passenger side, car is a November 1950 export deluxe , I’m trying to ensure I get it correct
Many Thanks _________________ The Original German Folks UK
The path of the Righteous is Never Smooth ..... |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7951 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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looking at the table on the semaphore info page it lists just one part number which suggests they were not handed. seems bad design to have handed parts when there's no real need just extra cost
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/semaphores.php _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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johnshenry Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001 Posts: 9364 Location: Northwood, NH USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Dean Bradley wrote: |
Gentlemen
Do you know if Grooved SHO pre 1951 semaphores are sided/ Handed ? My car is missing a drivers side SHO grooved semaphore, and has a original one fitted on the passenger side, car is a November 1950 export deluxe , I’m trying to ensure I get it correct
Many Thanks |
No. SHO never made "sided" semaphores that I am aware of. I have been restoring them for over 20 years. What is the date code on the one SHO sem that you have? _________________ John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Dean Bradley Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 438 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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Thanks for the information Finster , I will look at that _________________ The Original German Folks UK
The path of the Righteous is Never Smooth ..... |
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Dean Bradley Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2004 Posts: 438 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Semaphores |
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johnshenry wrote: |
Dean Bradley wrote: |
Gentlemen
Do you know if Grooved SHO pre 1951 semaphores are sided/ Handed ? My car is missing a drivers side SHO grooved semaphore, and has a original one fitted on the passenger side, car is a November 1950 export deluxe , I’m trying to ensure I get it correct
Many Thanks |
No. SHO never made "sided" semaphores that I am aware of. I have been restoring them for over 20 years. What is the date code on the one SHO sem that you have? |
John Henry it’s still installed in the car, and working fine, But I can pull it an take a look, I’m determined to get the car as accurate as I can, and in my ownership I’ve been slowly tracking down the correct parts for it , Many thanks for the info though _________________ The Original German Folks UK
The path of the Righteous is Never Smooth ..... |
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