Stick shifter won't go into any gear! Transmission dead?

[beetleman217]

Got stranded on our way to the last show of the season, had to be towed back home

1977 Westy with stock 2.0 F.I. and stock tranny. Was driving fine going 65MPH for several hours with no issues. All of the sudden at a rest stop stick won't go into any gear but reverse. Oddly enough after putting it in reverse it would go in gears. So was able to drive 1 - 2 - 3, then trying to downshift from 3 to 2 would make a pop and won't go into any gear again.

Initial thought was loose clutch cable so crawled underneath and righty-tighty on the clutch wing nut a couple of turns. Did nothing.

With engine cold and off the stick goes into all gears. Inspecting underneath I found a tear in the driver side axle boot (the one on the wheel side), but no signs of oil spill. I checked the gear fluid - there was plenty in there but I topped it off anyway.

Please help, any advice appreciated!
_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else

1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle

[borninabus]

sounds like your shift coupler blew up.
have someone work the stick while you look at where the shift rod attaches to the nose of the transmission. the problem will be obvious. good luck
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[beetleman217]

Crawled underneath and checked all linkages from stick to nose cone. Everything is secure and the rod going into the transmission is moving when the stick is shifting the gears.
_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else

1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle

[cmonSTART]

Pilot bearing gone bad?
_________________
'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[borninabus]

[sodbuster]

Check the shifting with the engine not running and you foot on the clutch. If it shifts okay and then not okay after you start the engine, good chance it's your pilot bearing. (Ask me how I know.)
Checking the coupler and shift linkage as well as the clutch adjustment are the easy stuff to do first. The pilot bearing requires pulling the motor to fix. So make sure all that stuff has no issues before calling the pilot bearing bad.

[beetleman217]

[beetleman217]

[Wildthings]

[cmonSTART]

If that's the case, while you're in there do a front main seal and throw out bearing too. Might as well.
_________________
'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[KTPhil]

When you say it won't go into gear, does it grind to prevent you, or does nothing happen, or can you not move it to the correct position at all?

[beetleman217]

[beetleman217]

So I checked today. With engine off - shifter goes into all gears smoothly with and without depressing the clutch. I then started the engine and depressed the clutch - shifter goes into all gears smoothly! I tried that several times and the shifter was seemingly functioning properly. Did not attempt to drive though, didn't want to have to limp back.
_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else

1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle

[beetleman217]

So I'm ready to drop the engine for the pilot bearing. But reading this thread again - shouldn't a bad pilot bearing avoid shifting gears anytime the engine is running? It's strange that when I start the engine and depress the clutch I can shift normally, but as soon as I move I lose the ability to shift. Or maybe that's normal as only when in gear and moving does the shaft spin in that bearing?
_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else

1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle

[Slip356]

It’s possible when engine/tranny are cold, shifting is normal, but after driving a bit to warm things up the pilot bearing binds up and you can’t. Happened to me, yes pull the engine, replace pilot bearing, TO bearing, main seal, inspect clutch etc.

[SGKent]

I would start it in neutral and let the engine warm up. Then I would rev it a couple times in neutral, push the clutch in and see if you are still able to shift without moving. Then put it back in neutral and rev it a couple more times and see if it still shifts.

Last - Make sure what you are feeling is in the transmission and not a bad CV joint. A bad CV joint won't affect shifting but the bus won't go anywhere when you let the clutch out, and it will just make noises and grinding sounds. Going in reverse may change the problem for a little bit.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[beetleman217]

So finally did the dreaded deed of pulling the engine. And voila - the pilot bearing has disintegrated to dust and ashes, with a few squashed needles sprinkled on top.

Now I would like to hear opinions about the following please, if anyone cares to comment.


1. I've been looking for these grommets on the upright tin to no avail. Anyone stocks them?

2. Inspecting the main seal, which I replaced 6 years ago when rebuilding the engine, I do not see any oil leak. In the photo it does look like a leak but that's old dried up remnants of one. I can assure you that the area is completely dry to the touch. I feel replacing it is an unnecessary call for trouble. On the other hand I don't want to have to pull the engine again any time soon. Thoughts?

3. The throw out bearing is hard to spin with a finger - it does spin smoothly with no grinding or noise but there's substantial friction, like turning a steering wheel - it won't spin freely. I'm leaning towards replacing it.

4. And lastly, the driven plate - it looks good with no warping. The Bentley manual says it needs to have "at least 2mm of friction material remaining above the rivet heads". If the rivet head is the round side and the rivet bottom is the flat side, I have more than 4 mm of material over the head and just about 2 mm over the bottom. But if it's the other way around, I could be at the limit... I can also report that grooves between the friction sections are less than 1 mm... What do you all think?

_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else

1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle

[SGKent]

The oval rubber grommet is not available as far as I know. I have looked unsuccessfully for years

The TO should be replaced if it is too hard to turn. Be careful what brand you get. From what I understand the original sach's ones are not available any more - see top link. INA might make one see bottom link. There may be other companies out there that sell them too, including old stock. Generally Weddle is a definitive answer on all 002 and 091 transmissions since they build them for racing.

https://weddleindustries.com/products/113-141-165-B-S/113-141-165-B-S
https://weddleindustries.com/products/113-141-165-B/113-141-165-B

The clutch has miles left on it, however you are in there. Your call. If it would have lasted and the new one tears off its facing then it would have been a mistake to replace it. If the old one tears off its facing and you were in there it was a mistake not to replace it. hard thing to answer because no one has a crystal ball.*

*Same answer for the Oil Seal. If the new one leaks you will hate yourself. If the old one leaks you will hate yourself.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Wildthings]

I run the Diesel style pilot bearing anymore as I feel it does a better job of keeping the clutch dust away from the bearing. To do so requires that you buy a stepped drill bit and slightly countersink the engine side of the flywheel, as the Diesel bearing is a bit longer and protrudes from the crank.

I usually get very long life out of my clutch discs, with the springs eventually breaking from wear, so check your springs as well as the friction material.

Did you say how many miles the clutch and associated parts have on them?


Diesel bearing is on the left, you can see it is slightly longer than the standard bearing in the middle.

[beetleman217]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I ordered the Sachs TO from busdepot:
https://www.busdepot.com/113141165b?qty=3
Any experience with it?

The oil seal and flywheel o-ring were both replaced when engine was rebuilt, and have approx 6000 miles since.

The clutch is Luk brand, it all looks very good, but the plate is the part that wears out the most, that’s why I asked to judge its looks. I’m leaning toward leaving it alone.
_________________
If all else fails, stop using all else

1977 Westfalia
1961 Beetle