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E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to)
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:53 pm    Post subject: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

BusDepot recommends a maximum of 315 watts of headlights otherwise you can over-heat (melt?) your fuse panel.
So that's using 55/100 (or 90w/100) main bulbs, and 55w inner H3 bulbs.

I want 90/100watt bulbs for the main lights and 100watt H3 bulbs for the inner lights.
Which means on hi-beam system myst supply 400 watts.
Which the fuse block cannot support (wisely).
Knowing a better way..... I don't wanna ask this 30+ year old fuse block to support 315watts either.
A LOT of vans have melted fuseblocks.
This is a significant risk as the vans get older and the headlights get brighter.
A lot of vans are hobbling along with partially burned/melted fuseblocks (from the old days).

It’s feasible that an overheated/damaged fuseblock and/or overheated light switch may have enough oomph remaining to operate the relays.
I’m gonna guess that if the injured components can pass 300 millamps (3.5 watts) that this mod will restore lighting to full power.
Furthermore enabling, even encouraging, 400 watts of lighting!
It could be considered a ‘valid repair’ if you can’t find good replacement parts.

Those with injured fuse blocks can also consider repacing all the other bulbs (tail light, brake, reverse, blinkers, courtesy etc) with LED bulbs to further reduce the demands on the old fuse block.

There is the "LED" option - that precludes this hi-power re-routing (elegantly).
But I don't want to put LED headlights on this classic vehicle.
It's NOT good sense, it's "my personal aesthetics...."

For a lot of folks, using LED headlights is a valid method to reduce the power demands on the fuse block.
I have replaced ALL of the other bulbs (taillights, brake, blinkers, parking, reverse, courtesy) ALL with LEDs.

(and reducing the amps eroding the gearbox/bearings too....but that's another issue Shocked )

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

All done, all seems good.
I set it up originally with just one supply wire and a 30A fuse, but crazyvwvanman rained on that plan.
Now it's got two discrete 20A circuits, similar to OEM.
Where one fuse blowing doesn't put the van "in the dark".

As GoWesty says WRT the Vanagon fuse block, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

1) is the OEM headlights system
2) is the BusDepot (and others) high-power system, where a relay is used for higher wattage high-beams.
This arrangement has been offered by many vendors for many years, and works well. It reduces the amps load on the headlight switch but doesn’t reduce the amps load on the fuse block.
BusDepot suggests a maximum of 315 watts for these old vans.
EDIT: oops member crazyvwvanman says the relay(s) also reduce the low-beam power passing thru the switch.
3) This is the system I'm using now, that relegates the fuseblock and headlight switch to "signal only". 200watts draws 14a so I think 20a fuse is OK.
All the headlight power bypasses the fuse block and the headlight switch, always.
The only power going thru the fuseblock and switch is a few watts of signal that control the relay operation.
This is a~19 amps (~230watts) reduction from the OEM loading.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

"Currently" [heh] the fuse panel & headlight switch ONLY supplies a few milliamps to operate the relays and dash lights etc.
So I changed the 10A fuses to 2A.
Mostly symbolical, the 2A suggests "there is a bypass circuit".
I changed all four fuses to 2A.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here's a pic of what's behind the right side headlight.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The current for 200 watts is 14 amps.
Here's the two 20amp fuses supplying the relays.
I used 12ga wires, about 5 feet long.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

One of these days I'll add the "city lights" to the parking lights circuit.
It looks kinda cool !
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Last edited by Sodo on Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:11 pm; edited 11 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

i concur with Plan 3... headlight current should not be going thru fuse panel. i see you have ceramic light sockets, good. i would have gone with a #8-10 gauge feeder just to avoid the voltage drop but 12 ga specs out fine and it is WAY better than OE wiring. thick wiring on a one-off vehicle is cheap to do, not so to make a million vehicles.

consider a Hall sensor ammeter on the negative lead to monitor current into and out of the battery. totally non-penetrating, just a current coil and digital readout on the negative (or positive but there's other wires to try to capture) lead and gives a cool, geeky readout of charge/discharge status. this is a net sum readout so if the battery is topped up and the alt can handle 400 watts of light, it'll read very little current. but it'll show dishcharge with the engine off or maybe at idle and then flip to show positive current as alt RPMs increase. you know you want one!!

https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Digital-Current-Voltage-Transformer/dp/B01DDQM6Z4
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

why not use LED's inside the stock headlamp lenses.
l use these, and have put them in 40 or more customer vanagons.
these are the outer lights.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M6W91RV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
the H3 version for the inners.

https://www.amazon.com/Auxbeam-Headlight-light-Con...1&th=1

these are the ones l use for H4 lenses.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G16BRJY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

l have these in all 4 of my vanagons, they are brighter than regular bulbs l have come across,
no one l have fitted these for, has been remotely unhappy with the light output.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

markswagen wrote:

no one l have fitted these for, has been remotely unhappy with the light output.


in all seriousness, what about the oncoming driver? have you driven oncoming into these lights on low beam? might be good, might be bad. dunno.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

yes l have, IF they are aimed correctly, there isn't a problem, every van l have put them on, has had the adjusters replaced, and they have been set correctly

l often see my wife driving in the other direction, he van was one of the first l put them in, we both have DRL wiring, so the lights are on all the time.

sure if the lights face up in the air, it could be a problem to oncoming traffic, l set them in a manner to avoid that.

DanHoug wrote:


in all seriousness, what about the oncoming driver? have you driven oncoming into these lights on low beam? might be good, might be bad. dunno.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
There is the "LED" option.
But I don't want to put LED headlights on this classic vehicle.
It's NOT good sense, it's "personal aesthetics...."
For a lot of folks, using LED headlights is a valid method to reduce the power demands on the fuse block.
I have replaced ALL of the other bulbs (taillights, brake, blinkers, parking, reverse, courtesy) ALL with LEDs.


Knowing this would come up, I addressed the LED option in the 3rd paragraph.
If the LED lights LOOK like original lights on a classic vehicle, I don't know what to say to that.
Other than "oops" but the relays weren't very expensive (~$6 each).
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

so the light, is a little whiter, is that really so bad.
when the lights are off, the glass lenses are still factory.
l could understand with those nasty headlamps with the LED's embedded in them.



Sodo wrote:
Sodo wrote:
There is the "LED" option.
But I don't want to put LED headlights on this classic vehicle.
It's NOT good sense, it's "personal aesthetics...."
For a lot of folks, using LED headlights is a valid method to reduce the power demands on the fuse block.
I have replaced ALL of the other bulbs (taillights, brake, blinkers, parking, reverse, courtesy) ALL with LEDs.


Knowing this would come up, I addressed the LED option in the 3rd paragraph.
If the LED lights LOOK like original lights on a classic vehicle, I don't know what to say to that.
Other than "oops" but the relays weren't very expensive (~$6 each).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:53 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

Here is what baffles me about posts like this......

About the first statement is ....... I do NOT want to ....... add you topic, put in LED's, swap in a Subaru, put on larger wheels, seat swap, ..... whatever it is.
Almost immediately the suggestion comes up ignoring the "I do NOT want to" and suggests that the OP do the exact thing the OP says that he does not want to do. 🤷‍♂️🤔😖

OK, Happy cold rainy Saturday..... (I bet Buses By the Depot has been fun so far! I would've gone but have Grandchild duty)
Climbing off of my soap box now .......

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

that's good to hear. my geriatric eyes get really irked at bad headlight scatter now. i see the current draw is the same ... 60 watts, so no saving there but light output is greater, always the quest. one thing i don't like about all of these lights is the presence of a fan that must run continually. i can't imagine any tiny, high speed fan operating in a wet, dirty environment for very long. IP ratings be damned, wet road grime gets into any cheap fan.



markswagen wrote:
yes l have, IF they are aimed correctly, there isn't a problem, every van l have put them on, has had the adjusters replaced, and they have been set correctly

l often see my wife driving in the other direction, he van was one of the first l put them in, we both have DRL wiring, so the lights are on all the time.

sure if the lights face up in the air, it could be a problem to oncoming traffic, l set them in a manner to avoid that.

DanHoug wrote:


in all seriousness, what about the oncoming driver? have you driven oncoming into these lights on low beam? might be good, might be bad. dunno.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

markswagen wrote:
so the light is a little whiter, is that really so bad?


Yes, actually. LEDs have a different quality of light, which affects shadows and such. My dad spoke with a rally racer several years ago, who refuses to use LEDs as his primary lighting source because of that quality difference. Perhaps it comes down to eye-brain processing of the individual, but I cannot stand LED headlights, be it driving a car with them, or being on the receiving end... and it's got zero to do with aesthetics.

A lot of us simply do not like or want LED headlights and convincing us otherwise simply isn't going to work.🍺
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

kamzcab86 wrote:
Yes, actually. LEDs have a different quality of light, which affects shadows and such.


so from a Science perspective, LED and fluorescent lamps can have a low Color Rendering Index, CRI. High CRI lamps have a wider spectrum of light emitted which humanoids have been selected for over the millennia to see by the light of the sun, CRI of 100. Tungsten elements, as found in nearly every incandescent lamp, emit with a CRI of 100, so you DO see better with tungsten emitters vs a lower CRI lamp *for the equivalent brightness*. sure, throw enough LED light out there and you'll see things well. but you need brighter lights and that makes my eyes cranky in oncoming traffic. that horse has left the stable tho and we just gotta squint more now.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

Sorry to turn Sodo's thread into an LED vs incandescent debate. I've been an automotive lighting fanatic for 40 years. The LEDs produce light blowback to the driver at MUCH higher levels for fog, rain, high humidity, snow, reflective road signs and as mentioned above they produce more eyestrain on a long trip. I applaud an excellent thread on highly effective incandescent lighting.

Mixing LED bulbs with their multipoint light output with a reflector designed for a single point incandescent bulb generally produces poor results and excessive glare to oncoming drivers. Whether customers who see "Ooh, more light" are discriminating automotive lighting consumers enough to see any of these issues is a completely different issue.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

The "dazzle" from driver or passenger position with retro-fitted pure white LED's is horrendous during blizzards and downpours on moonless dark nites.

Not sure if headlight units designed specifically for LED's work better from a driver position, but from the perspective as an on coming vehicle, I often think that those vehicles that I think may have factory LED headlights, sure have an impressive halo of dazzle in front of them compared to halogens..
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

LED bulbs tend to have much hotter colour temperatures - usually around 6000k.

This is a very blue light, very similar to daylight (6500k for northlight) compared to what humans tend to think is suitable for night-time, which is more like 3500k. Plus as above, the extra blue frequencies reflect back from fog etc far more.

I'll never fit 6000k LED bulbs, but that seems to be most of them. Sad I did find some 4000k 'motorcycle' 7" headlights that seem to be OK, but the light pattern isn't ideal. I'll live with them though, as we keep our headlights on at all times, and rarely drive in the dark anyway.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

I put LEDs in my van when I replaced the headlight switch.

I simply thought I would try them as they are such a simple install.

They work well here in So Cal.

The light is different, but anything seems to be better than the pathetic stock setup.

My new Toyota Highlander Platinum has self leveling and turning LEDs with extremely sharp pattern. There is no "extra" light with those compared to the Vanagon. I suppose purpose built headlamps would be better for the Vanagon.

In other words put in what ever YOU like, but be sure not to pull too much current what ever way you do it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

But LEDs huh?….. I’m inclined to regale everyone with how deep red my LED taillights are.
Must be real difficult to start a new thread these days.

Probably a good time for a pic of a melted fuse block here.
If anyone has one.
^^The fear of the mythical melted fuseblock^^ precipitated this detailed technical effort.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:

Must be real difficult to start a new thread these days.


if threads didn't drift we'd only learn what we wanted to know!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

Back on topic. Your result should greatly increase the voltage at the bulbs as well as greatly reduce the load on the 3 switches involved.
In my experience the increase in brightness from this wiring approach is very noticeable even with stock wattage bulbs or more mildly boosted ones.

Your "block diagrams" on the other hand have a few issues.
#2 is way off of how the standard kits do it as the kits put both the lows and the highs on the added relays and not just the highs as you show.

Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

I would like the diagram to be correct.
I omitted the stalk switch intentionally.
Can it be explained in a PM?
Then I can update the diagram before some feller “quotes” the top post, making wrong info ‘permanent’ on TheSamba.

Thread drift is a blessing and a curse.
Some threads would expire off page1 without a single reply if not for thread drift.
And theres whizzing thru the thread on your phone,
then dashing an off-topic reply at the next stoplight.

I learned many years ago if you have a technical project it “can be better” to just do the whole thing, then show what was done,

Rather than getting frustrated by the drift,,,,mid-project.
At the risk of missing some really good points or suggestions, safeties etc.
Which increases the difficulty of getting a post up by a LOT.
We don’t see many technical threads anymore, right?

This project is kind of a good example, like if someone replied with an LED headlight replacement that
    looks just like incandescent,
    performs same or better,
    less power than OEM (or similar 230watts),
    similar bulb lifetimes
    easily replaceable bulb
    not costing too much more

Which is almost feasible, and could be a compelling “drift”. >>> Markswagen? 👍🏽

The “power management” part of this project was four $6 relays, two fuse holders, some12ga wire, and some modern heat shrink connectors etc.
Aside from the E-code kit, not an expensive mod, and easy to restore to original.

I’ve had this project on my mind for at least 10 years.
As the years passed by, and my fuseblock “survived”, to be honest there was a lot of momentum to “just do it”.

Blasting 400watts down a lonely secondary highway, while thinking of the amps taking all the proper channels (alternator with a dedicated ground too!), not overtaxing old wires, no tired or corroded connections enroute.

The light output is very satisfying!
As well as the power management.
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....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to) Reply with quote

Now I’m wondering if a single (un-fused, but double-sheathed) #8 wire supplying two sealed 20A fuses behind the right headlight could be preferable to crowding the battery box.

But then the at-risk wires after the 20A fuse are so danged short that the 20A fuses don’t get the opportunity to protect much. Which suggests deleting those fuses too.
And just double-sheath them too….. and risk “no fuse”?
As VW did in supplying the fuse block (and other circuits).

But then some feller will say your van is seconds away from bursting into flame.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

What if a 50a MIDI fuse was used like a ring-terminal at the battery? 50A protects 6 feet of #8 wire (to 167F!). Then two 20A fuses up front isolate the left and right headlights. That hole is 5.6mm, enlarging just a little to get a 6mm bolt thru it.
And aside from the added complexity, everyone is happy!
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....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb


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