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Semaphores
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pre67vw
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:18 pm    Post subject: Semaphores Reply with quote

Hi All, I’d like to learn a little more about semaphores… I’ve seen the page with all the part numbers listed, but I still have questions.

I think the first Beetle semaphores (excluding anything kdf) were ‘sided’ in that each had a L and a R on them and the ends were sloped. Then some time in ‘49 (anyone know when?) they ditched the sided and became just ribbed (SWF) or grooved (HS).

Is it correct that the ribbed had two screws on the cover and the grooved had 4 rivets? Why do some have SWF logo on the lens and some have VW?

Then I have read that Zwitters had ribbed semaphores with a single screw, but I have one of these with what I think is a Dec ‘50 date code - can that be right?

Then the next version was the smooth cover.

What is a short arm or a long arm?

Then there are the convertible versions… when did these start? as most split Cabrios I’ve seen (and Hebs) have sedan semaphores, but I have seen photos of the elusive Cabrio semaphore with a VW logo on the frame (obviously not from another marque)

Thanks!
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johnshenry Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

The first ribbed, universal SWF (not left or right) came out in mid 1950. The first version had a a single screw and the end of the steel arm/cover wrapped around the end of the lens, and a sheet metal type screw there. This version did not have the sliding bulb access door underneath, you had to take the arm/cover off to change the bulb. These sems are fairly rare, especially the lenses since they are unique to this model.

Sometime in early '51, the more common ribbed one came out, 2 screws and the brass sliding bulb access door.

Later, the SWF was modified again. It had 2 screws, but one was hidden underneath the steel arm. It was a beveled screw that fit flush to the inner steel pivot arm. This allowed the removal of the arm with a single screw and the lens would stay attached.

Other details were the dropping of the side to side tabs at the top of the steel pivot arm sometime in 1952.

I have been restoring early sems for 15+ years and keep a spreadsheet of each sem I get get my hands on, the date code of it, and the details that it has.
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mk-Zero
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
The first ribbed, universal SWF (not left or right) came out in mid 1950. The first version had a a single screw and the end of the steel arm/cover wrapped around the end of the lens, and a sheet metal type screw there. This version did not have the sliding bulb access door underneath, you had to take the arm/cover off to change the bulb. These sems are fairly rare, especially the lenses since they are unique to this model.

Sometime in early '51, the more common ribbed one came out, 2 screws and the brass sliding bulb access door.

Later, the SWF was modified again. It had 2 screws, but one was hidden underneath the steel arm. It was a beveled screw that fit flush to the inner steel pivot arm. This allowed the removal of the arm with a single screw and the lens would stay attached.

Other details were the dropping of the side to side tabs at the top of the steel pivot arm sometime in 1952.

I have been restoring early sems for 15+ years and keep a spreadsheet of each sem I get get my hands on, the date code of it, and the details that it has.


Great info! Applause Cool
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pre67vw
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Yep, great info, thanks John!

So this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Am I correct in thinking this is date code MB is December '50?

What month/year did the sided semaphores end?

How does this semaphore differ from the later zwitter sem that I think also has a single screw?
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Last edited by pre67vw on Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnshenry Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Yes, that is the first version of the "longnose" SWF sem, dated MB, Dec 1950. It does not have the sliding bulb access door underneath, very rare to find these with usable lenses. The earliest date coded versions of those I have seen is June 1950.
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pre67vw
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Thanks John.

So what does ‘longnose’ refer to?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

pre67vw wrote:
Thanks John.

So what does ‘longnose’ refer to?


I call them that as the steel arm wraps all the way around the "nose" end of the lens. This semaphore is seen in the Sept 1950 Service manual.
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ThatVWGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Should a '51 Beetle have ribbed or smooth semaphores?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

ThatVWGuy wrote:
Should a '51 Beetle have ribbed or smooth semaphores?


Either SWF ribbed, or SHO grooved. But not smooth.
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Böm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Regarding the first version SWF ”longnose” sem. Is there anyone making new lenses for them?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:17 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Böm wrote:
Regarding the first version SWF ”longnose” sem. Is there anyone making new lenses for them?


Unfortunately, no.
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Dean Bradley
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Gentlemen

Do you know if Grooved SHO pre 1951 semaphores are sided/ Handed ? My car is missing a drivers side SHO grooved semaphore, and has a original one fitted on the passenger side, car is a November 1950 export deluxe , I’m trying to ensure I get it correct

Many Thanks
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finster
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:06 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

looking at the table on the semaphore info page it lists just one part number which suggests they were not handed. seems bad design to have handed parts when there's no real need just extra cost
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/semaphores.php
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

Dean Bradley wrote:
Gentlemen

Do you know if Grooved SHO pre 1951 semaphores are sided/ Handed ? My car is missing a drivers side SHO grooved semaphore, and has a original one fitted on the passenger side, car is a November 1950 export deluxe , I’m trying to ensure I get it correct

Many Thanks


No. SHO never made "sided" semaphores that I am aware of. I have been restoring them for over 20 years. What is the date code on the one SHO sem that you have?
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Dean Bradley
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

finster wrote:
looking at the table on the semaphore info page it lists just one part number which suggests they were not handed. seems bad design to have handed parts when there's no real need just extra cost
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/semaphores.php


Thanks for the information Finster , I will look at that Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Semaphores Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
Dean Bradley wrote:
Gentlemen

Do you know if Grooved SHO pre 1951 semaphores are sided/ Handed ? My car is missing a drivers side SHO grooved semaphore, and has a original one fitted on the passenger side, car is a November 1950 export deluxe , I’m trying to ensure I get it correct

Many Thanks


No. SHO never made "sided" semaphores that I am aware of. I have been restoring them for over 20 years. What is the date code on the one SHO sem that you have?


John Henry it’s still installed in the car, and working fine, But I can pull it an take a look, I’m determined to get the car as accurate as I can, and in my ownership I’ve been slowly tracking down the correct parts for it , Many thanks for the info though
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