E-Code Square headlights, with relays for 400watts (how-to)

[r39o]

Mr Sodo,

Simplify any way you like. Eliminating voltage drop is the idea. The dreaded fuse box melting is a product (sic) of the current(squared) multiplied by the resistance. So if the current goes up a little, the heating factor goes up by the square.

So fat wires help. Not using the headlight switch to directly control the lamps another. Going through the fuse block another to eliminate. Going directly from the battery great. Fuse at the battery good (better than at the lamps because any short "before" the fuse is a disaster.) Fuses in the weather not good.

I run my front AC fan right from the battery. But never changed the headlights because the LEDs draw much less current than original. Remember the factory never did anything more than was safe for the intended configuration.

Today's bulbs can emit a rainbow of colors. (Various intensities and frequencies.) Choose what you like best.....
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[DuncanS]

LEDs vs, incandescent. My aging eyes don't like the heavy duty Kelvins and my kids say the same, so bluish white and whatever type of light they emit? Not a fan. 'Nuff said.

Sodo, I have much the system you are proposing. I spliced an #8 wire into the red main feed to the fuse/relay panel, just before its plug. It then goes to an 80 amp circuit breaker immediately with a 5" length. Circuit breaker as you don't want the connections a fuse implies, nor have total blackness at 70 on the highway at night with no way to get them back on quickly. A separate breaker for highs and for lows might be good as then if one part of the circuit fails, you can at least get home. My #8 wire then passes through the tin right behind the LEFT headlight. Left in caps, because the name of the game as r39o, Mark and others have said, the shorter the wire the better. The wire splits and goes to two 50 amp relays which are encased in freezer bags with tape making the opening as tight as possible and at the bottom so water can't infiltrate. Spend decent money on the relays. $6 is not enough. https://www.amazon.com/DNF-Pack-Bosch-Style-Relay/...amp;sr=8-4

However, I recommend waterproof ones such as: https://www.amazon.com/PACK-AMP-Waterproof-Relay-H...&psc=1

The relay trigger wires are the OG headlight wires , so no reworking nor fuse changing is necessary for that part of the circuit. The wires are already there at the lights so just paste them onto the relays. I have another #8 ground which goes back through the tin and is grounded next to the fuse panel. I didn't want the body ground out in the weather and corrosion environment. Then I redid the wire between the lights themselves behind the grill with #12. Without changing the headlights themselves, I noticed a considerable increase in brightness. I'm not using the stock OG lights.

Duncan

[DanHoug]

back when dirt was rocks, i used "dual headlight" relays on my Volvo P1800S to feed the aftermarket Marchall H4 headlights with lead-crystal lens'. NAPA Echlin HR 301 was the relay, built like a tank, single #8 supply, meant to be hard wired with ring terminals and has a removable cover to clean the points, should it ever be necessary. armageddon relay. some on eBay.

gorgeous, white-tungsten light from those vintage Marchall lamps with a razor cutoff.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[jimf909]

Re: Battery box crowding, fusing, etc.

I now have five wires terminating at the positive terminal of the starter battery: starter cable, oem wire(s) to the fuse box, horn, fog lights and yandina battery combiner. This would be awful with a group 41 battery but it's tolerable with a T5 size battery. On my multi-year to-do list is adding a fuse block at the starter battery (fancy folk would be considering some sort of circuit breaker panel). As we continually work to bypass the oem fuse box it seems that an additional, properly wired, fuse block would support heavy current users and allow future expansion.

My plans are to put the fuse block on the exterior of the battery box facing the rear bench. Your suggestion makes me think it could be mounted in front of the glove box: easily accessible and conveniently located for high amp items like horns, headlights, etc. It could be fused at the battery if one chooses to do it differently than VW engineer/accountants chose.

Or you could just use these fancy $7.99 LED light bulbs I found on the internet.

[markswagen]

relays and fusing to avoid, melting the fusebox.
before l found LED's, l used to make my own relay mounts, using the holder for the double relay, that site behind the tail light, l've bought dozens of those over the years, l also used a stock VW fuse holder, that would clip onto the side or front of it, and took an 8 gauge wire, directly from the batter to power it.
then l wired the relays across like everyone else does, BTW, l used to mount that relay block, above the glove box, the wires to the fuse panel, were pushed through a length of heat shrink, to keep them together and tidy.
_________________
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[IdahoDoug]

Dan,

Yeah, I remember those days as well. Marchalls, Cibie', Oscars, Bi-Oscars and all that cool stuff from Europe where they had the finest auto lighting regulations in the world. They focused on providing top notch lamps for their driving public to reduce accidents and injury and that had to include nasty winter mountain driving, heaps of fog, and very high vehicle speeds. Our US regs were focused on protectionism - keeping European lamp makers from getting a foot hold here on US cars. For some 50 years, the US regulation required lamp makers to design a reflector with a focal point (so far so good - that's where you locate the bulb to put the light where you want it), then locate the bulb slightly above and slightly rearward of the focal point. This got you a blob of light, and the European makers would have had to create all new reflectors, molds and assembly lines just to enter the US market (versus leveraging off their already world-beating lamps). We are still a decade behind lighting innovations for the exact same reason - protectionism.

My Dad was an international airline pilot, so my brothers and I would often ask him to purchase the German version headlamps for whatever we were driving - a Ford Capri, Audi Quattros, Triumph Spitfire, VW Jetta, etc. So we had kick ass lighting growing up in Michigan with its fog and snowy conditions and I've been spoiled ever since.

Regarding LED's I know they're available in different spectrums now vs the gritty blue and harsh white. And I have several high end flashlights I ordered with the optional warm output that "matches incandescent". Yet when I go outside on a rainy night, something about them causes way more light blowback, picks up the tiniest water droplets, etc. I think they are technically as warm, but they must also be putting out other fringe frequencies as well because I can take a powerful incandescent light out and it penetrates FAR better without the blowback. I can literally light trees on a nearby mountain with the old stuff whereas much higher output rated LED lamp beams seem to get lost and refracted through normal atmospheric humidity and dust particles and won't reach that far. I'll keep the incandescents until they solve that riddle of lighting physics.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Sodo]

[DanHoug]

cheap relays have undersized components for their rating. since there is no regulation of truth in advertising, they can claim any crappy relay is 30 or 40 amps. the point material burns, the point arms overheat, etc.

take a look at the construction of the Echlin HR 301 dual headlight relay i mentioned before. it's rated at 30 amps per relay and looking at the buss bars underneath one can believe it. AND it has internal fuses!

top view

bottom

inside

_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[Sodo]

IRHAPSODY 5 Pack 80/60 AMP Waterproof Relay and Harness - Heavy Duty 12 AWG Tinned Copper Wires, 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Automotive Relay https://a.co/d/68h8xfe
$30 for 5 relays

The load is

16 amps at 12.5v engine off
14 amps at 14.5v engine running

They look pretty bomber for $6.
Waterproof connector and wires included.
Hopefully at 80 amp claimed, they can support 16 amps = 20%.
And if they go bad, what happens?
Replace them?

Pretty sure I’m good.
I’ll report if problems.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[jimf909]

I used one of those for my horn relay, it's lurking in the shadows...

After an ordinary relay wrapped in some sort of water proofing stuff failed after 5 or 7 years. There's a thread covering it.

_________________
- Jim

[Sodo]

Relays are vented on the terminals side.
Consequently if the terminals face is upward, water can flows thru the “vents” filling the case.
Think of the case like a little cube bucket.

Relays should be installed terminals down if there’s any possibility of water at the terminals side.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Abscate]

[jimf909]

Back in 2016 it wasn't mounted like a bucket but it also wasn't mounted terminals down. It was in between that and somewhat exposed. The replacement waterproof iteration is tucked higher up and is said to be waterproof. Check back in five years for the test results.

[Sodo]

Now that I have two vans I understand sibling rivalry better.
You have to do everything twice.

I put a MIDI fusebox under the (hinged) passenger seat to distribute the battery outputs.
One 8ga wire goes down thru a hole in the seat pedestal, follows the frame then comes up behind the grille.
Super easy wire route.

I tested 30A and it did not blow driving around the neighborhood, but I did not test 30A with the A/C running.
I changed the 30A fuse to 60A.
This 60A fuse now 'runs my van', which has significantly reduced electrical demands due to relays and LED bulbs.

Right side headlight.
Waterproof 80A relays.
The current for each side is about 15 amps on hi-beam, 7 amps on low beam.
There is a 20A fuse.
The headlights are grounded to the body.
I grounded the "5 watt city lights" to the original headlights (harness) ground wire, just so the un-used original ground was not dangling un-used.
It's not visible in this pic.

L-side headlight
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[tjet]

Why not do the Ford bucket mod and install these? They are very nice LED headlights.

They look stock, which is what you're aiming for (pun intended)

https://www.morimotohid.com/Sealed-Beam-Holley-RetroBright-LED-Headlights-5x7_3?quantity=1


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583876&highlight=ford+headlight

[crazyvwvanman]

Sorry, but the way that new fuse panel appears to be wired up is a major safety hazard.
It looks like both reddish factory dash power wires are sharing a single 30 amp fuse?
I hope I'm mistaken.

One of those wires powers almost everything in the dash wiring PLUS the ignition coil and engine relays.
If that added fuse blows the engine will stop running and all lights will be off including all exterior lights including emergency flashers.
The other wire sharing that same added fuse powers the high speed of the 450 watt fan for the radiator.
VW used a 50 amp fuse just for that wire alone.

If the engine stops turning the power brake assist will soon be lost as well as any power steering assist.

Back to occasional lurker mode,

Mark

[Sodo]

(edited for clarity)
I don’t consider it finished, fused power to the headlight relays project was #1.
I will address other loads next.
I appreciate the technical criticism and have logged it!

I did forget about the radiator fan and thanks for the 450watts number (35+ amps).
High speed would come on next August along with the A/C fan.

You’re saying the (remaining) fusebox demands are more than 30 amps?
All of my other bulbs on the van have been replaced by LEDs, so the needs are reduced a bit.
My plan was to turn everything on, blow a fuse then go bigger.
I started at 30A because 20A didn't seem a worthwhile test.
I drove around the neighborhood with lights, fans, wipers on and the 30A "didn’t blow" so there's that.
But the high-speed radiator fan didn't turn on (in December) so that's where I'm at.

Prob should order that $19 ammeter that DanHoug suggested.
If it's accurate enough, that's a lot of knowledge for $19.
Or should I get this handheld meter for $45? ( https://a.co/d/0ODW9XR )

Does anyone know the MAX amps that "the van" requires out of that battery connection (the twinned red & red/white)?

Which one supplies the radiator fan? Red or red/white?

My ‘next plan for the VAN fuse" was to choose the fuse size necessary
to protect either one of those two red wires.
There is a 'fuse size' based on 'wire size' but I don't have that number yet.
If one fuse size for 'either wire' could supply the van's demands of both wires that is my preference.
It sounds like VW likes at least 50A so maybe a 60A?

Two wires out of one fuse poses a dilemma, logically should each have their own fuse.
I'm hoping to save the #4 fuse as an option for 'something else'.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[DuncanS]

The name of the game is to have the headlights be powered by the most direct possible wire with the least number of connections. Going through the stock fuse panel will not meet that criteria.

I know a huge number will howl at my mod, but here is what I did and experienced a significant increase in distance the lights would reach.

A couple of months after the Sylvania SilverStar sealed beam upgrade, I took a tap directly off the main red wire feed to the fuse/relay panel BEFORE it went into the p connection in the panel. Bentley 97.204, current path #1. In US language, this is a number 8 gauge wire. From there, I went just far enough for it to go to a 60 amp circuit breaker I can easily reach if I pop the top of the instrument cluster. From there it goes directly through the tin--grommeted--behind the left headlight and into a pair of 50 amp relays--not water proof, but in double plastic freezer bags with the leads coming up from the bottom and the bag wired tightly closed. No problems in 5 years.

Duncan

[Sodo]

Got a NEW TOOL today!!
BSide clamp meter, $43
Very happy with this unit, I wish I bought one 10, 15 years ago, regardless of the cost (back then).
I would have had years of use of the tool.

Just the van running was 7 amps.
But my headlights bypass this circuit..
Maybe the defrost motor was on low.
Radio on, interior LEDs on.
All LED marker lights & taillights on.

30 amps, Rear heater blower on, wipers on high, AC on speed 2. I think the rad fan was on but not high. But my defrost blower won't run on high.
I bet I could get by with a 50A fuse.
I put a 60A in.

There was some puzzling behavior WRT the A/C blower on speeds 3&4.
As shown it was drawing 30A at AC blower on speed2, but if I switch the A/C blower to 3, the fan speeds up but amps drops to 26a.
It's like the A/C blower is getting it's power thru the starter cable....izzat normal?

Here's the headlight leg of the circuit.
12.5 amps to 90watts low beams
28.6 amps to 400 watts hi-beams
8ga wire is way good to 40amps so I think it's sufficiently oversized.

Bright lights on a dreary December afternoon (2PM).
400 watts of eCode.
Even spread.
I have no complaints!
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[DuncanS]

A DC Lobster claw for $43??? Ordering right now. Last I looked a few years ago when working on my boat, they were two hunnert. Don't even care how accurate it is. Relative values between wires will tell much of the story. And can calibrate with an accurate shunt meeter I have.

Duncan