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Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

fiacra wrote:
VW_Jimbo wrote:
I think it would be wise to eliminate a big question mark. You stated the injectors were refurbished. Always a big? on quality and what was done.

How about running an injector balance test? Let’s see what the volumes on each injector is!

Additionally what is your battery voltage at the battery posts? 12.6vdc would be perfect! How about reading voltage between battery negative and the engine case bolt? Looking for .4 vdc or less.


I sent them out for refurbishing by Mr. Injector. I believe he ran those tests. I certainly got a data sheet back, although right now I can't find it. I trust the quality of his work. I'm much more active over on 914World and he is the "go to" person for most of the members of that forum. The battery voltage at the posts is 12.3. Not sure how I can test between negative and a case bolt. My leads are way too short to reach from the negative post on the battery. I'm not the best with electrical stuff....just basic skills.


When you received your injectors back from Mr. Injector. How long did they sit around before being installed and put into service?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

vwoldbug wrote:
What do the spark plugs look like and is dwell and timing right on. Also did you test fuel pressure with vacuum line on and off.


Plugs are brand new. The old plugs were slightly black - consistent with the car running rich. I haven't pulled the new plugs to look, but since I already know that the car is running really rich I'm not sure what I would learn anyway. Dwell and timing are spot on. I've checked both multiple times now. If I remember correctly fuel pressure was 35psi at the CSV. I don't believe that I checked with a vacuum line disconnected. I can do that soon.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
fiacra wrote:
VW_Jimbo wrote:
I think it would be wise to eliminate a big question mark. You stated the injectors were refurbished. Always a big? on quality and what was done.

How about running an injector balance test? Let’s see what the volumes on each injector is!

Additionally what is your battery voltage at the battery posts? 12.6vdc would be perfect! How about reading voltage between battery negative and the engine case bolt? Looking for .4 vdc or less.


I sent them out for refurbishing by Mr. Injector. I believe he ran those tests. I certainly got a data sheet back, although right now I can't find it. I trust the quality of his work. I'm much more active over on 914World and he is the "go to" person for most of the members of that forum. The battery voltage at the posts is 12.3. Not sure how I can test between negative and a case bolt. My leads are way too short to reach from the negative post on the battery. I'm not the best with electrical stuff....just basic skills.


When you received your injectors back from Mr. Injector. How long did they sit around before being installed and put into service?


Less than a week.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

VW_Jimbo wrote:
I would first go back through a valve adjustment and be sure nothing changed. A blip in the firing cycle is a lean misfire, more often than not. Really odd on an FI system. Really think you need to find a vacum leak on that cylinder, or do an injector balance test.

What is the measured fuel system pressure running at idle and no vacum at the regulator? How about volume?

Anybody touch the EGR system?


I'm still stuck on how a vacuum leak would make the car run rich? It seems the opposite would be true. I even know of people who have intentionally created a vacuum leak in order to pass smog on a car that was running rich. Rather than do that I'm trying to solve the problem and be a responsible owner.

Can you explain to me where my thinking has gone wrong on this issue?

Yes, I took apart the EGR to make sure it was working and not clogged. The diaphragm looked fine. I had an experienced VW mechanic check it as well and he deemed it working. I adjusted it according to the Bentley manual, I had him check adjustment and it was fine. I did not replace the EGR filter. He said it was not needed. Obviously we could both be making mistakes here, so I will recheck everything again this week-end. I'll recheck valve adjustment as well. The numbers are so far off at this point that I don't think the valve adjustment being slightly off is really going to make much difference, but going back and running through the checklist again is not a bad plan.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
FI doesn't need a Shepherds hook, that's for carb models where gas is present above the advance port, there's no gas in a FI throttle body.

A "miss at idle" huh?, a miss will dramatically skew snog numbers in the way yours is behaving, you have to deal with that.
Spark strength could be a factor, have you tried pulling one plug wire at a time from the distributor cap while it idles and listened for a drop in RPM?, maybe it has a dead cylinder (or partially)?, that'll make smog numbers like you show.

As for replacement AFM's, I have yet to see a "rebuilt" unit that actually worked well, most have just gotten a cleaning or coat of paint with very little internal work performed. You have much better odds buying a used one from the classifieds, even better if you can borrow one from a fellow late bug that's a known good runner just to make sure it's the issue.

Classified search using "air flow meter": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...ton=Search
And another for "AFM": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...ton=Search
77-79 bug are the best match for your car, 75-76 will work, but only if a late one is impossible to find.


Thanks, I've started looking for a new AFM. Nobody local that I know that has an AFM I can swap out and test. Anybody out there in the Bay Area? Most likely not since post 1975 Beetles are rare here for the very reason I started this thread...

All cylinders are firing and contributing. I have pulled one wire at a time and each time it does affect idle. I'll go back and do that test again.

Any thoughts on coils? I see someone just started a thread on that very topic and it looks like I shouldn't get hung up on getting a Bosch coil.

The miss at idle goes away when the car warms up. The AFV is a bit suspect. At first it wasn't working at all, but then it "freed up" and started to work. I'm sure it will conk out again at some point. I haven't found any other cause for the miss. I'll try putting on a new coil and see if that helps.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I might have a random bug AFM you can have for the price of shipping. I’m not sure of the model year it was intended for or how to determine the year range. What Bosch # do you need?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
I might have a random bug AFM you can have for the price of shipping. I’m not sure of the model year it was intended for or how to determine the year range. What Bosch # do you need?


Wow. That would be awesome! If it is for a Beetle it is almost certain to be correct. As far as I know these were only used on 1975-1979 Beetles and they are all the same. The ones for a Bus are different. The part number is 043906301.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

fiacra wrote:
Xevin wrote:
I might have a random bug AFM you can have for the price of shipping. I’m not sure of the model year it was intended for or how to determine the year range. What Bosch # do you need?


Wow. That would be awesome! If it is for a Beetle it is almost certain to be correct. As far as I know these were only used on 1975-1979 Beetles and they are all the same. The ones for a Bus are different. The part number is 043906301.


Well darn. I thought I accumulated a bug AFM at some point by mistake at a swap meet.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I thought what was written on the AFM said “Bug.” While researching if this was compatible with your 79 CA EFI bug I discovered it was indeed for a bus. Looking closer. The red marker says “Bus.” On the other hand. It’s an appropriate AFM spare for me. Good luck with your troubleshooting. Sorry that didn’t work out Embarassed
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
fiacra wrote:
Xevin wrote:
I might have a random bug AFM you can have for the price of shipping. I’m not sure of the model year it was intended for or how to determine the year range. What Bosch # do you need?


Wow. That would be awesome! If it is for a Beetle it is almost certain to be correct. As far as I know these were only used on 1975-1979 Beetles and they are all the same. The ones for a Bus are different. The part number is 043906301.


Well darn. I thought I accumulated a bug AFM at some point by mistake at a swap meet.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I thought what was written on the AFM said “Bug.” While researching if this was compatible with your 79 CA EFI bug I discovered it was indeed for a bus. Looking closer. The red marker says “Bus.” On the other hand. It’s an appropriate AFM spare for me. Good luck with your troubleshooting. Sorry that didn’t work out Embarassed


No worries. I REALLY appreciate the thought. I'm glad it turned out to be a good spare for your bus. There is a used one in the classifieds, and BusDepot actually has a rebuilt one on their website. I have an inquiry in with Fuel Injection Corporation in Tracy to see if they can refurbish mine. There are options...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

If you find out you do in fact need a replacement AFM. I just bought my buddy’s 1976 bus. He went down the rabbit hole of used AFM replacements over the years while he owned the bus. He replaced with a remanufactured unit from Bus Depot. I gotta tell you. It’s beautiful. He said. “Yeah, the driving change was dramatic too”

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I remember the battle well to get my '79 to pass. HC's were in the 800's, then below 600. Lots of adjustments getting it under 220. We did have to adjust the AFM.
Keep after it, you will get there.
Kevin
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Do you have access to a air/fuel meter you could borrow?, maybe someone's messed with the AFM to compensate for a vacuum leak, sounds like you can't make it any worse.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
If you find out you do in fact need a replacement AFM. I just bought my buddy’s 1976 bus. He went down the rabbit hole of used AFM replacements over the years while he owned the bus. He replaced with a remanufactured unit from Bus Depot. I gotta tell you. It’s beautiful. He said. “Yeah, the driving change was dramatic too”

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wow, that's a beautifully "landscaped" driveway Very Happy . Glad to hear about your friend's experience with Bus Depot. Makes me more confident in ordering from them. Not much more expensive than the used one...and quicker than having mine remanufactured. I think I'll go that route.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Do you have access to a air/fuel meter you could borrow?, maybe someone's messed with the AFM to compensate for a vacuum leak, sounds like you can't make it any worse.


There's no doubt that someone did mess with it at some point. The adjustment screw was 1/2 turn from fully turned in when I started trying to adjust it. Unfortunately I don't have access to an air/fuel meter. At this point I think I'll order the rebuilt AFM from Bus Depot and see what happens. I'm more and more convinced that is the issue. I hate throwing parts at a problem but I feel like I've eliminated a lot of other possibilities.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

At this point, you aren't going to hurt anything by opening up the AFM. I think you have the system fairly well updated. Bit I also agree that at some time, someone compensated for a vacuum leak.
Here's my AFM:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


See the flathead screw at the bottom of the swing arm? If you loosen that and move it to the center, it will lean things out. Mine's set a little richer now since I moved out of CA and it likes it just a tad richer.
At least take a look and see what they have done.
Good luck
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

When I fixed up the FIL 77 Standard, I tried everything I could to get it to run leaner, it was pig rich. It was making my eyes water, while I worked on it in the garage. I got it but I did things that most people should not do. But I documented it for anyone to try!

Here you go. How to adjust an AFM. If you can adjust a carb, you can use that same skill set to tune an FI air flow meter!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=80

Be Uber carful with the swing arm and the contact touching the film board. They are very easily ruined. The arm has the lightest touch on the board. There is no way for anyone to set that touch without a robot, so don’t increase any pressure on the film. Leave that pressure alone. Do not try and clean the contacts of the film.

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Thanks for all the encouragement to open up and play with the AFM, and thanks for the links to threads showing how to adjust the AFM. I did that today. The carbon track has not worn through (no white showing). I adjusted the wiper arm clockwise just a bit to lean it out over the entire range, and then moved the spring tension clockwise about four clicks to lean it out at load. There was still a silicone seal on the wiper arm adjustment screw so I don't think anyone has played with that since the AFM was rebuilt many years ago. I reinstalled the AFM open and upside down, started the car and played with adjustments a bit until it seemed to run fine. Once I put everything back together it was idling a bit rough so I adjusted the bypass screw as well as the idle and got it back to idle at around 850rpm. The bypass screw is backed off about 6 turns now. Off to the smog check station for test #5 (the first two were pre-tests) and....it failed again. Results below. The CO has improved, as have the HC, but predictably the NO is worse. Passing numbers for HC and NO, although just barely for the NO, and a significant improvement in the CO, but still at gross polluter levels. When I started all of this and had the first pre-test the tech told me the CO was close to 30 Shocked I got it down to around 13 by adjusting the bypass screw, and now down to just above 5 by playing with the wiper arm and spring tension on the AFM. However if I lean it out more I might get the CO down, but the NO will then go up and I'll fail there (correct me if I'm wrong on that). I'm looking for input on what I should try next. Should I advance or retard the timing? Can that make a difference in the NO? Should I put the wiper arm adjustment back to where it was (there was low CO at idle -- they don't test that as part of the smog check but I did have it on an exhaust gas analyzer at a friend's shop where I can test at idle but not under load) and only adjust the spring tension to further lean it out under load instead of across the range? Should I push the damn car off a cliff.... OK, I'm not going to do that as I'm still committed to the process, although I am getting close to the end of my patience/ability level. Anything I'm missing here?

Latest results:
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Previous two results:
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Looks like you still have a little room on the NO, a notch or two more could be worth a try. Timing might help by retarding a little, how are you setting it currently?, max mechanical advance with the hoses off @~3500 RPM?, or at idle? (hint, hoses off at speed is better), 28 degrees BTDC is what you want it to top out at hoses off.

The tricky part is to get it lean enough for good Co, but not so much it creates a lean misfire and spikes the Hc's, or makes lots of No from excessive combustion chamber temperatures. retarding timing moves some of the burn into the exhaust and eats up the Co and Hc's.

How many tests do you get before they send the tow truck to haul it off to the crusher?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Looks like you still have a little room on the NO, a notch or two more could be worth a try. Timing might help by retarding a little, how are you setting it currently?, max mechanical advance with the hoses off @~3500 RPM?, or at idle? (hint, hoses off at speed is better), 28 degrees BTDC is what you want it to top out at hoses off.

The tricky part is to get it lean enough for good Co, but not so much it creates a lean misfire and spikes the Hc's, or makes lots of No from excessive combustion chamber temperatures. retarding timing moves some of the burn into the exhaust and eats up the Co and Hc's.

How many tests do you get before they send the tow truck to haul it off to the crusher?


I think most people would have crushed the car by now Very Happy Already the tech at the first smog shop told me not to bring my car back to him. It takes time to test these cars, its a busy shop, and he didn't want to deal with it again. Thankfully the tech at the current smog shop seems determined to outlast me! I have two more tries in me. After that I'll probably just put it up on eBay and see if someone out of state wants to buy it. It is a decent car, runs and drives well. Needs cosmetic attention (new rubber, headliner, etc), but it doesn't need any rust repairs. Original paint, original upholstery, etc. I'd prefer to keep it.

I have been timing it at idle. 5 degrees ATDC with vacuum lines connected and idle set at right around 900rpm. My basic tach/dwell gauge (Equus 3010) only goes up to 2400 rpm. I'll see if I can borrow one from a friend that will read up to 3500 rpm. Below is the information sent to me by VintageWerk when they rebuilt my distributor. Does that change any of your recommendations? If I do time it at idle with the hoses connected where do you think I should set it? 6-7 degrees ATDC, or more?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Trouble passing California Smog Check - 1979 Super Beetle Reply with quote

So sad - like Maricopa and Pima counties in Arizona - that California is so concerned with emissions from the so-few classic vehicles like late 1970s on still on the road - even though California must realize that such vehicles are driven so few miles each year....

Compare that to totally unregulated emissions from lawn mowers, chain saws, leaf blowers, generators, etc.....

When I get my propane cylinder refilled, raw propane gets vented into the atmosphere at the end step of that process, totally ignored
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