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Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions
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jimmyhoffa
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

The frame and all the bits came back from blasting, and looked amazing and ready to take some serious paint. Here's the surface profile.
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Next I had to prep, so I got out an old engine stand and modified a rusty beam to bolt to it so I could make a crappy rotisserie borrowing the very convenient height of my retaining wall in the driveway:
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I was using Steel-IT, which as best I can tell is a medium-quality moisture cured urethane with stainless steel powder in it. I don't think it's any more special than that but apparently it works. That said, I didn't want any water in my paint, so I wanted to make something to strip that out. I sweated this together and made it just the right size to straddle some studs, so I could install it in my garage. It works AWESOME. My inline silica pellet moisture trap barely even changed colors, and it was 70% Relative Humidity or so.
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The Harbor Freight Special 2.5mm "HVLP" gun works awesome at spraying Steel-IT. I used the pattern knob all the way in for tube work, the regulator set to 2Bar with the trigger pulled, the cheater air valve on the bottom backed all the way out, and the material knob inline with the needle somewhere in the middle, I just played with it. It really laid down well. You have to agitate Steel-IT for 5 minutes at least to thin it before spraying, so the friendly neighborhood paint store near me shook it for 7 minutes in a paint shaker for me. Worked great. Towards the end the cheap spray gun cup fractured off the flange and the trigger started galling and seizing but I got through the job and threw it straight in the trash. Laughing
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Those little boogers from overspray wipe right off with a white scotch-brite or cheap shop rag. It looks real good. 👌 If you make a rotisserie the easiest way, mentally, I think is to view each tube as a "project" and make sure, BEFORE YOU FORGET, to attend to every side of the tube before moving on. At least, divide the car mentally into sections and roll the car and make sure. I can't really imagine doing this without a rotisserie. Just laying the paint was a pretty crazy amount of work, like 7-8 hours.
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.


Last edited by jimmyhoffa on Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Looks great. Nice work!

I have always found painting tube anything. takes twice, three times as long to paint. And there's sooo much overspray lost to the winds.

Is this the blue car in your avatar?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

I really like Steel IT paint. It last a lot longer on suspension components that regular paint does wears off guickly. You can weld through it to.
I also found out brake fluid does not harm it.
Your chassis looks good in stainless.
It also a food grade product, so if you use any machinery while processing foot you can use it on that too.
I met the owner, Michael several years ago at the Sand Sport Super Show and the guy that preps the trophy truck in the video. He showed me how well the paint was holding up on the bottom of the trailing arms after racing in Baja.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Steel it is awesome. Super easy to touch up and very very durable. Its expensive but works great.
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jimmyhoffa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

I would say after playing with it, I'm medium-impressed by Steel-IT. The one thing I've noticed adding a few tabs here and there is that it won't "pop off" by scraping. It will only shave. What I mean by that is if you get under it with a blade, it won't flake off down to bare steel because it's bonded so well to the grit blasting. You just have to scrape until you start seeing steel and then wire brush if you want bare steel to weld really clean.

Others have echoed this but it is in no way a classic "weld-thru" coating. It welds like trash. It does weld, but you would only truly weld through 3 coats of steel-IT if you were in a desperate way. TIG is a disaster, bordering on impossible. MIG is dirty but possible. I no longer attempt to weld through it.

Now its time to make the plumbing sexy like it wasn't last time! First, how about some anti-rotation tabs for bulkhead fittings made from cheap impact sockets!
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Then, I took some 1/8" pins and machined like .002" off them in the lathe so I could slip them into the -3 AN fittings to use as alignment pins
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Let's get this thing up in the air and start bending and tabbing in brake lines!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Yes I should of clarified my statement about welding through Steel It.
With being involved with off road racing, there are times when you have to repair broken parts out in the middle of no where. This where the welding through it comes from. The weld may not look the best, but it will work so you can keep going. And do a proper weld when you get back to the shop.
Welding through some of the other types of coatings such as powered coating without spending a lot of time cleaning it off first waste time were seconds count.
Krylon Dull Aluminum was popular spray paint for painting chassis when it was readily available. It was easy to see cracks through it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

I get that this is a picture of one half-finished brake line, but if this is any indication of how this will go, I'm stoked. 🤙 REALLY digging the -AN stainless combo.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Moving along here after a little side quest: Primarily out of frustration, I bought a CNC machine.
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I made a little Morse throttle cable tube clamp as a test, and them moved on to brake lines:
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I made a little bulkhead fitting keeper thing, which I'm going to weld to the cross tube in the front in place of the little tab tee you see in the above picture. I think I like it better, I think it'll look cleaner.
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Then, at long last, I got all my yellow SACO bushings from KARTEK, who are without question one of my favorite vendors. Mike at Kartek called me because he apparently LOOKED THROUGH MY OLD ORDERS before he shipped my most recent order, figured out what spring plates I probably had based on context clues in my other order, and called to tell me I probably ordered the wrong diameter outer spring plate bushings. I had actually planned to CNC machine them up to the diameter I wanted for the fitment I like, but the level of sleuthing he did considering I am a small-time customer was pretty impressive. Kartek, Race Ready Products, and Buggyworks in Santee CA have all been particularly helpful in the parts area, specifically stepping out of their way to get me what I needed. In the case of Race Ready and Buggyworks- also allowing me to snoop through their crap in person and cherry pick used stuff I needed to make things work.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

I've had a boatload going on, doing odd jobs, welding work for my dad, home improvement etc. but I've managed to slip in some Chenowth Moments of Enlightenment. I'm pretty well done with the hard lines which took WAY longer than expected because I sorta had a meltdown halfway through and re-did it all.

Front circuit done:
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All the other lines fitted back in, with revised routing around the shifter. It finally occurred to me to use the shift pedestal as and Adel clamp mount surface.
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I went through the rear axles with the new "off-road style" CV boots which will hopefully last longer than the stock style ones. They basically gave me 5000 miles.
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I exercised it through the travel and all the tweaking of transmission mount stuff was worth it. The axle is level right in the middle of the travel and the plunge of the axle into the drive cup and IRS stub is pretty minimal. Ready for more travel in the future.... Cool I feel the geometry is straight up dialed now that I learned so much on the Baja 1000 cars I've worked on and applied it to my lil' baby buggy.
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I took it up to our local dirt circle track shop that has all the pre-made XRP stainless brake lines for -3AN and got everything I needed for the "soft" plumbing.
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Now it's sleepy time.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

I SWEAR TO YOU this is my last brake line post. I went through a dark time but then I did what I usually do to clear my mind, which is read NASA workshop manuals and A&P training material and ask my cool airplane people what the right thing to do is.

1: ) DON'T hyperfixate on using stock mounting points, especially when changing travel and flexible line technology (going from rubber to braided SS)
2: ) DO make sure that the free flex length on a braided line is LONGER than it would be with a rubber line for the same travel/parameters. They are simply not as tolerant of that. In several ways, rubber is actually better.
3: ) DO MINIMIZE TWIST especially on a braided line. They are actually pretty stiff in torsion and if the travel forces line twist they will either wear faster or unscrew themselves or both.

So, that guidance cleared my head. I tacked on a few mounts and started playing. The one I thought would be better is worse! About 1/8 turn of twist through the travel.
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So now, I let the car back up, move the line over to the other bulkhead fitting, and crank her through the travel again!
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Wow almost no twist now! Looks like that's the one!
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Turns out the preferred angle for twist also made routing hypersimple! Now there are very few bends and the lines route very clean. ALL DONE WITH THAT!!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Epic work. Simply epic!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

tobiism wrote:
Epic work. Simply epic!

Thank you for that! Very timely comment too, as the work got a lot less epic in the final hours of the build. Laughing

I had a chance to make a drag race day, or a "ring seating party" as I'd call it. I slapped the car together, wrapped wring around the cage to hold it in place, made some super crappy brackets to hold the oil filter and electrical disconnect, and sent 'er down the track! Wow what a break in of my new 2176cc dual IDF engine. Cool
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Best time was a 13.97@92mph through the trap. It wheelies off the line which I will say I didn't expect with my warrior beam, bumper, and battery up front. When it hooks it carries the tires about 3-4 feet. It stopped hooking and I'm not a drag race guy so I didn't know how to fix it and didn't really care, so I spent the rest of the day in the low 14s. 60' times were consistently 1.7s which is Hellcat-ish. I gapped multiple Hellcats on street tires in the 1/8th but I had absolutely no chance once they hooked and got on the power. The same class of car with drag radials put me under for sure. It did draw crowd attention to see a little buggy visibly pull a Hellcat off the line, which was cool. Backed it off the trailer under its own power, and now it's time to finish the wiring the right way and do the bodywork over winter.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Great story!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Wish I could have seen the look on the hellcat drivers face when you left him at the line.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

It was a good time! I would have fared much better in the 1/8th, but the 1/4 is way more fun. The car is a well-tested daily now, doing great around town. Took it on a local gravel road and it drifts like a monster. It also drifts like a monster on dry hot asphalt in 2nd gear with no clutch kick. 🤙 Woohoo! Time to work on tidying the wiring, working on serviceability and doing the bodywork nice.
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New engine is running tight and nice. Hopefully it stays that way. It is my first dual carb stroker NA build, which was honestly easier than the EFI and single carb builds I have done.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Finally got to put the hurt on this car a little bit and jump it decently. I landed on the engine cage and nothing bent or moved but my spine, so we'll call that a durability litmus test. Laughing There was an open house car show at our very own St. Louis' Diode Dynamics aftermarket lighting company. The weather was horrible, but I drove it up anyway in a light 43F sprinkle-rain. It was 40 minutes one-way. Crying or Very sad

The Suzuki in the last picture has PRP Roadster seats in it (the only suspension seat that will fit these older smaller frames like my 2RL) and I know the guy, so I got to sit in them and see if I liked them. They are right in the sweet spot (almost tight??) for me at 5'10" and 170lbs, so I'd be mindful if thinking about these. Absolutely not a "big dude" seat.
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

I saved the worst for last, as usual! It's fiberglass and bodywork time! I'm pondering the paint to use as I fill divots, wet and clamp frayed edges, fix cracks, and re-laminate every body panel with a sheet of woven cloth to add strength and provide a better surface than the original Chenowth chopper-gun pattern. There are some areas on these parts that are 50% gel-coat and 50% 'glass. Surprised I reinforced areas that were made primarily of gel-coat with actual fiberglass. Laughing

Filling in old cutouts that mean nothing:
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Now its time for laminating over the chopper gun finish after reinforcing and fixing stuff. I think I did a pretty good job not over-using resin. I wetted the original chopper strand finish first with a microfiber roller, stuck the cloth to that, added just a little more resin and used a grooved roller to pin it down and the extra soft mini microfiber paint roller to soak up excess resin.
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2023 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Gouged cracked Gel-coat and fiberglass, patched and gel coated, and layered over with woven cloth!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions Reply with quote

Still tinkering on the bodywork, but also trying to tune the car at the same time-

I'd call the powertrain and gearing a settled matter, I'm just doing maintenance and upkeep at this point. It totally hauls, I can comfortably get up to 80mph in the open areas, and any time you want you can stomp on it and it lights the tires up. With that kind of power authority it's easier to drive the car hard because you don't have to wonder if its going to bog and blow straight through the corner, or roast the tires off. It's almost like my wheel speed is directly proportional to throttle position. Laughing The turning brake helps a bunch too in commanding the direction changes at speed.

What is not settled is the steering and the suspension. I took it out last weekend and I have two main gripes:

-First, feedback through the wheel in the rough stuff is bad. I set the beam up and it doesn't have bump steer, and also the scrub radius is fairly minimal so it doesn't rip the wheel out of your hand if you clip something at an angle. What it does do is rattle the wheel all over the place in the rough choppy sand or cross-rutted dirt. I let Kangaboy drive my car and I drove his, and we both agreed my car is cool in a lot of ways but the steering rattle just sucks.

-Also, the higher I jump it the more the back end wants to buck. The poly bump stops are printing HARD patterns on the trailing arms, so I know I'm running out of travel in the rear. I need to find some less abrupt jumps to launch the car and take some video, but I'm inclined to believe in the terrain I run in with all these little booter jumps and kickers, I'd do well to have a few more inches of rear travel. I don't think it would take much - Kangaboy and I jumped it a few feet in the air a bunch of times and it took it! Twisted Evil
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