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October 52 Zwitter
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esde
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

short update between family trips.
I've been working on getting this thing together enough to start and stop. While that doesn't make sense to most, I'd like to take it to a few shows while it's being built, so it's gotta move under it's own power. And, while this will eventually have the stock original color and interior, it will be lowered. Possibly on some chrome Fumagalli wheels, or a set of RDW's that I have. Don't worry though, I've saved the original front beam and brakes, in case it needs to be made completely stock someday.
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shortening springs and re drilling the dimples
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I turned a set of old drums, and did the brakes with the larger 64 parts, and bled them. Fed new cables for everything, amazingly the choke cable finally pulled out. Sorted the full flow hoses for my 36hp, and added some silicone heat shield
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and got that installed.
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Waiting on a few things to get it started up. Also, trying to match the original steering tube and seat frame color
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It's tough, not even 100% certain what color grey I'm shooting for. But I've got some color samples coming and will know more soon.
Found some NOS wipers, but they're for a standard. I'll probably paint them silver till I find the correct ones.
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I'll post up more after I get colors figured and the engine sorted. Also, started sorting door gaps, but that needs a few days of good deep thought before making any moves. It's certainly hard to pick up someone else's project when you don't have knowledge of the previous persons skills....
SD
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Nice update! Love that you are getting it running! It is going to look bad ass! Lucky!
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bally
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

I. Relieve the seat frames and tube would be L71 which is more a beige than a grey. There’s a thread on here somewhere about it…. Good luck. Dave

Edit: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=478732&highlight=frame+color
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esde
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

bally wrote:
I. Relieve the seat frames and tube would be L71 which is more a beige than a grey. There’s a thread on here somewhere about it…. Good luck. Dave

Edit: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=478732&highlight=frame+color


Yeah, unfortunately L71 is the color used on every color car except the Azure blue cars, which used something different. Depending on what you read, and maybe even month or production, it’s a different color. Maybe L75, L275, or L278. I have some samples of L75 and L275 coming to compare with original paint, so maybe that will help. L278 grey beige is mentioned but I haven’t found a color chip, formula, or definite picture of it anywhere. I’m only trying t9 figure it out for fun, and I’m surprised nobody else has yet..
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Quote:
not even 100% certain what color grey I'm shooting for

How about L469 Anthracite? It's not a split/Zwitter nor even Oval-era color, but is "warm" with a very mild brown hue compared to a stark grey from Zwitters. Here it is on anthracitedub's '62:
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

esde wrote:
bally wrote:
I. Relieve the seat frames and tube would be L71 which is more a beige than a grey. There’s a thread on here somewhere about it…. Good luck. Dave

Edit: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=478732&highlight=frame+color


Yeah, unfortunately L71 is the color used on every color car except the Azure blue cars, which used something different. Depending on what you read, and maybe even month or production, it’s a different color. Maybe L75, L275, or L278. I have some samples of L75 and L275 coming to compare with original paint, so maybe that will help. L278 grey beige is mentioned but I haven’t found a color chip, formula, or definite picture of it anywhere. I’m only trying t9 figure it out for fun, and I’m surprised nobody else has yet..


Most interesting, particularly that no one seems to have figured it out and recorded it here for us to refer to. Good luck! I look forward to seeing how your paint chips match up. Cheers. Dave
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esde
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

I've been in the barn every night for weeks, so time for an update. The rear deckled was better than most, but the spring mount was torn away and the mounting for the plate had rusted out
Hammered out a repair
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Mount from Virtanen
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Mount holes welded up
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After bringing it down with a shrinking disc
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My reproduction gas tank from cip1 needed paint, I found some info on the correct color here
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695626 and decided to spray it RAL 7021. Maybe a little light, but once it's in the shade under the hood I think it'll look darker
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I cleaned up some stock wheels to run on this for now, and even widened the rears. I cut the centers from some that were pretty beat and trued them up on the lathe
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pressed the centers into new 6" barrels
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And painted them with a match for L75 hellbeige, as I have a quart. More on the color later, that might be a separate thread.
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and carefully mounted some tires. I use irons and mount from the back, so I don't scratch the outer bead
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Blasted, pickled and oiled some (I think) correct lug bolts
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Got some more epoxy sprayed in the back where I've been working, to get things sealed up tight
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Check it out with all the fenders hung
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Still lots of details to attend to but it's good to see it while again. The doors are a concern as the gaps are wonky, but before I can work on them I need to get the pan gasket in place and the body rubber bushings installed. So My friend Dan helped lift the body back off
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Took the opportunity to adjust the front toe with the old Matra toe gauge
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At this point, I'm not 100% sure on the if/when the body will come back off for paint, so I decided to tackle the seam sealer underneath, and spray some L36 in the hard to reach areas. This shows the rear heater tubes/ mufflers, which had been cut flush with the heater channels and were a real bear to get right
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Got carried away
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And did this so I can get the body plate mounted again
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Set back down and borrowed a template from a friend for the tail lights. This was made from an original zwitter fender, though after mounting the lights I feel they might be a little low
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I'm running some eggs for now but have OG hearts in a box
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Pretty good progress and I'm pleased overall. Fitting the doors and fenders led to the discovery of some poor panel fitting before I got the car. I'm still undecided as to if and what gets fixed, or how much better I can make some things without completely cutting the car back apart. Specifically the drivers front quarter has problems, but it may also be an issue with the BBT fender. I'm actually planning to fit the BBT fender to another car I have, to see if it exhibits the same problems. Will see
And then there is the collecting of parts..
I grabbed this as it's the correct lock for the zwitter shifter. The top edge is broken but I'm experimenting with what alloy will allow me to weld the lip back up
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The lock was surprisingly difficult to pick as the pins are at a 45º angle to the keyway
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But, success!!
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If anyone has info on where to get blanks for the BKS Sperrwolf lock please let me know. There are many offered in the classifieds but nobody seems confident that any of the keys will work with the "BKS" cylinder.
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This came from Europe, for whenever the car gets a "correct" motor with period correct accessories
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And then there's the vent windows......
I got a message from Pawel in Warsaw Poland that he had some NOS vent window frames and I promptly purchased them. Probably cheaper than repairing and replacing mine but still just wow. Fast forward 5 weeks and a box shows up from Poland.
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my heart sunk. 3 pairs of women's fur platform sandals. Went back and forth with Pawel (who is a stand up seller by the way!!) and discovered that the label for my box was somehow switched onto someone else's box in Warsaw. My vent windows were likely in a room without a label and lost for good.
I tried to make due with the sandals, but it was useless
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Visibility is terrible
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Fast forward several days, and may son grabs this from the letter carrier
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Still wearing the bottom sheet of the delivery papers that had the tracking number.... so it was able to be delivered!! Miracles!
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The chrome is very good, but not perfect. But I'm very happy with them
Still lots to do before the show in 4 weeks. Hoping to drive it around the field this weekend, stay tuned.
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D. Haviland
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

As far as I know, zwitters take oval wiper blades, not split.
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Zwitterkafer
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

AFAIK Zwitters still had the chromed wire wipers, painted on Standards. Of course these are all long gone by now, usually replaced with the more readily available oval flat arms and matching bases.

21 Dec 53 entry in Progressive Refinements:

Windscreen Wiper:
Now: Flat section arms, herringbone section blades, painting, metallic effect.
Formerly: Chromium plated

Nice work on this Zwitter!
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esde
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

D. Haviland wrote:
As far as I know, zwitters take oval wiper blades, not split.


I had looked in Progressive refinements and found the same info as posted by Zwitterkafer. But, it hardly matters right now as I have two sets off split wiper arms, and three sets of oval bases. If I find some split bases I'll paint these split arms silver and call it good.
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esde
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

weeeeeeeeee!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7NJXWaq9sfM

runs great, but of course there's always a few bugs. Trans leaks at both axle retainers, I suspect they're a little bent. And the clutch doesn't want to full engage, which I'll have to completely inspect. It feels right, but isn't releasing completely, even if I over tighten the cable.
Mounted up the door latches, and stuck some 56 seats in. My son was all smiles and laughing the whole time as there's no windshield...
So pulling the engine tomorrow eve, and dropping the whole flywheel and all at HR clutch to get checked out. The guys been rebuilding stuff for me for 25 years, and if somethings wrong he'll find it.
SD
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bally
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

That’s excellent! Put a big smile on my face too 😎😎😎😎🤪🤪
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Two Glove Boxes
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Hell Yeah great work!!!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 And very sick drill press!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

esde wrote:

Set back down and borrowed a template from a friend for the tail lights. This was made from an original zwitter fender, though after mounting the lights I feel they might be a little low
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I'm running some eggs for now but have OG hearts in a box
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Unfortunately I also think the taillamps look a bit low. Nearly 30 years ago I did the same on my Dec. '52 Zwitter. The right rear (R R) fender was major crumpled and I did not want to try to save it. I bought a good '67 fender and transferred the taillamp hole locations to it using not only the holes from the crumpled '52 R R fender, but comparing and matching the hole locations from the still usable L R fender. In this photo you can see the bumper bracket oblong hole in the R R fender and the height above to the bottom of the hearts. That distance looks like a "thumb-width" larger than on yours, though theoretically your height should be factory exact per the template.
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Another alignment guide would be using the stock bumper blade, fitted level to the ground. The taillamps should be a few inches up from the top edge of the blade, though I can't provide a dimension. Remember that when towel bar overrider style bumpers were offered as of, umm, late '54 while still using hearts/eggs, the towel bar was almost completely in the way of the taillamp lens.

Also on your rear fender, at least the R R one we can see in your photos above- gently push the front inwards near the bottom portion wheel opening curve so that it does not bow outwards as it is now.
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Your first spray of Azure Blue looks great! Also, your widened rear wheels will fill out the fenderwell nicely.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Another photo dump and update
After the drive around the yard, several things were apparent: 1. I had some clutch issue, and 2. my brakes were almost non existent, though they had been fine a few weeks before. And, worst of all I went to mount the rear deckled and discovered a mistake I had made.
Back when I repaired and replaced the firewall/ package tray I had the rear hinge mount out, and when I reinstalled it the curve no longer matched the curve of the decklid. Not even close. So I committed to taking it back apart and set everything up
engine back out
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bought a really good set of cutters for drilling out my rosette welds
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these things are no joke, but they also remove a considerable amount of material.
put some music on, donned safety glasses and stayed busy for almost 3 hours
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you can see what I had to repair to get it ready to reinstall
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after welding up the holes and getting it smoothed back out
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`
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I made a plywood template that followed the contour of the decklid, and used that as a guide to reshape the hinge mount. You can see how far off it was. My best guess is I bent it during the first removal, and didn't catch the problem.
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Back in, and it seems ok
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used screws to pull everything tight and checked with the lid
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looks ok
this side needs adjustment , but the curve is ok
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Borrowed an actual spot welder to help with the install. LOVE IT
plug welded where the screws were and spot welded everything else
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So, much happier with this. Still some work to et the lid fit right, but at least the curves match
And, I got my rubbers for the rear tail lights. Installing them showed me that the mounting brackets were bent. When I got it all corrected, the tail lights now sit at the correct height!
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Few other things, like the gas tank is painted and in
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I scored some more early parts, some for myself and some for Schwing.
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The seamed shroud is a month earlier than what would have been in my car (or maybe several months) But it's closer to correct than the 60 shroud that I have mounted, so I'll fix it. Also a zwitter fuel pump!!
the coil mounts are shot so drilled them out
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Made some plugs, with a 6mm nut welded on the back
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Welded and ground
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Took some straightening and bending to get it right, like 6 times on and off the engine, but I did get it painted and mounted, just no pics yet.
And the clutch issue....
Man it had me stumped. Brand new Sachs diaphragm plate and disc. Even over adjusting the clutch it would barely slip the disc. I measured it. mounted it under my press, and measured the action, compared to the flywheel step (24mm) depth, checked the travel at the throwout bearing ( which is 12.5mm if you ever wondered) I borrowed an old used lever style plate from Kris at Rusty Wagens, and now it all works as it should. Took it for a drive down the street (dead end, and yes the brakes got fixed) and the trans happily shifted 1-through 4 without issue.
I have a few things on the punch list to finish getting it ready for the show at Flanders. Next update will prob be pics from the show.
Cheers. SD
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esde
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Was a mad rush to get the car together a bit more for the All Air Cooled show in Flanders NJ, but it was so worth it. The front bumper holes had been welded shut and the mounts were not there, so lots of measuring and carefully cutting. The apron was also a bit narrow, so some pushing with the port power till things lined up
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The passenger side mount had to be modified to sit nicely, you can see the gap here
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And my friend Dan gave me some help with the glass. His only rules were, three loops of cord around the glass and no banging on it. And it worked great
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The bumper and glass make such a difference!
Tailpipes are 1.25" stainless welded into a modified 36hp muffler. Sounds great, and check out the plate! Can't wait to get it registered!
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Gave it a thorough cleaning and loaded up. My 62 is clearly jealous of the attention
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The kid and I on our way out..
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I will say, he's helped me all along the way. I had him installing wrist pin clips and torquing case bolts, adjusting valves, checking clearances in the trans, adjusting he clutch and bleeding brakes. He was not super into it at first, but it has grown on him. Ever since we started the engine on the stand he has been more excited, and he was so super psyched for this show! It's really made the project so much better..
And, while I've been doing this, my buddy Schwing has been working on this 50. He actually drove the car the 140 miles to Flanders like 3 days after getting it back on the pan and running! Here they are
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And my son, riding with the pic of my dad. The pic takes a ride whenever I take a car to a show, homage to the guy that started this for me.
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Now that the car is back home, a few things to deal with so it can go out for bodywork and paint. The hood is a mess. It's been repaired a few times, and probably has 6-7 pounds of "reinforcement" hanging on the hinges. The curves are wrong where it meets the body. So off it comes, and I will fix another hood to better fit the body
And the driver fender has issues. It's a repo from BBT, and it has more flaws than have been described here by others. We hung an original that was too thin to fix, and it fits perfectly. But the BBT doesn't meet the running board correctly, and there's no way to correct it without a ton of work. Bleh, $500 down the shitter.
Last item will be the drivers door, which will get a new lower out skin from Mika and a salvage inner from my old door. I'll have the rest of that door available if someone needs metal to fix another..
SD
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Fantastic that you got the oval together enough to take it to Flanders. Am glad that your taillamps ended up at the correct height. Do you have a photo of the car lined up on the display field? When the NJ host club went to selling attendance tickets in advance as of last year, I did not go.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Few things that remain to be done before sending this thing out for paint: Driver side door lower rust repair, finding a new hood or repairing this one, and dealing with the lousy fit of the BBT front fender.
New repair panel from Mika, it has a flange stamped. Not my favorite way to weld in a repair, but the man knows what he's doing so I went with it.
Marked and cut:
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For the driver side door, I was concerned about keeping the correct curves. It fit reasonably well considering I hadn't adjusted anything at all yet, so I built a jig to help me land everything back in the same place
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When the skin is cut, it is free to sag 15-20mm. With the jig I know where to hold it. Here you can see how much it wants to relax
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I had intended to use my tig welder, but the weld through primer I used where the panels overlap wasn't behaving so I mig welded it. The machine has a nice pulse setting, so you can get a very fast, hot weld. Lots of air to keep it cool
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Tacked both sides, and filling in the spaces between the tack welds. Weld and cool, weld and cool. No distortion that I could feel from front to back.
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Finished the seam. This took a while, as I completely cooled each short weld and checked to make sure I wasn't getting any high spots. The seam did shrink back away from where I wanted it, leaving a slight valley. After welding I spent a few minutes with a hammer and large gently curved dolly and got it to within a few mm of the form. Having the form as a guide is really nice for this, otherwise the only other option is bolting the door to the car to check how well it matches.
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I have a ribbed door with a decent bottom I'll cut the repair parts from to do the inner frame next. Going to try to work around the hinge mount so this door will hopefully hang the same as it did before..
SD
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bally
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Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 1182
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Great update! I love that jig/form you built and the demonstration of how useful it was 😎

Cheers. Dave
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esde
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Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5927
Location: central rust belt
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: October 52 Zwitter Reply with quote

Thanks Dave. Finished up the door repairs:
Harvested a bottom from another door. Felt bad cutting the whole door up but it just had too many issues.
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Blasted it clean and cut to fit
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Checked the fit, it's good. Even GSD approved
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Took it back out to finish the welds
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Interestingly, even with original German metal, there are some differences in the pressings. The rib did not line up without help, and the corner needed work also. I imagine the factory had multiple dies stamping out doors and that they were not exactly identical.
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My good door is missing the check rod, is there a way to remove it without drilling the pivot rivet? I just cut it free from the donor door, but need to install it at some point. It really looks like I need a new rivet and rubber bumper.
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New project is getting my hood to fit well. I have been looking for a suitable early 4 tab to convert, as this one has several repairs, but after looking at a dozen worse hoods for astronomical prices I think I'm stuck fixing this one.
SD
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