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rodknu Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2022 Posts: 26 Location: Montana
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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My 74 Super has two hex headed axle bolts on the pass side that have backed way out and are finger loose. Had that happen on a Vanagon I had years ago and couldn't keep them tight. Is this problem common? How tight should they be? Torque? Thanks, Rod |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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The torque specification will be listed in the Without Guesswork book. You can find it under the technical section tab.
The bolts should be triple square, not hex. So make sure you have the right bit. |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3819 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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I always use Blue Loctite on mine and if we’re talking CV bolts then yes, M8 Triple Square Spline Socket as I recall torqued to 24ft lbs. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34021 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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OTTO 1303 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2020 Posts: 636 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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If they are the original “triple square” 12pt, as stated above, torque to spec, with serrated washers.
If the bolts are aftermarket, they may be a very cheap replacement, swap them out for something better. Others with the cheap aftermarket bolts have noticed similar issues.
Topline has the serrated washers
https://toplineparts.com/product/constant-velocity-bolt-washers-set-88-1421-2/
And new 12pt bolts
Loctite is up to you
Good Luck _________________ 74 Super Sun Bug - OTTO
74 Super - DANZIG
74 Super - HERZOG |
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RLFD213 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 336
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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These are what I use. A little blue lock tight, these and torque to spec. When you do maintenance always check all the nuts, bolts and screws to make sure they’re still tight. |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7394
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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You can get the correct cv joint bolts in the classifieds. |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5601 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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don't forget the CV joints need 3 of these on each side of the axle
_________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34021 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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runamoc wrote: |
don't forget the CV joints need 3 of these on each side of the axle
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I think this was only on certain years/styles of CV castings. Neither of my '71 cars used them, but I've seen them on others. They serve as a spacer so the bolts do not interfere with the CV itself.
Install exactly what came off your car. |
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rodknu Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2022 Posts: 26 Location: Montana
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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Thanks to all who commented. I have parts on order! Thanks. |
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Lost69Convertible Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020 Posts: 447 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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I'll put emphasis on some of the comments above:
1. Buy new high quality bolts
2. Clean the internal threads thoroughly with a degreasing spray
A caveat about lock washers: They increase friction in both directions: CW and CCW. Most lock washers are designed to minimize the friction (torque) they add in the CW direction, but it's always a measurable increase (when performing a fastener study with an electronic torque meter). The result: torqueing a bolt to 25 ft-lbs with a lock washer is less torque on the bolt than doing the same thing without a lock washer. _________________ 1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12860 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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KTPhil wrote: |
runamoc wrote: |
don't forget the CV joints need 3 of these on each side of the axle
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I think this was only on certain years/styles of CV castings. Neither of my '71 cars used them, but I've seen them on others. They serve as a spacer so the bolts do not interfere with the CV itself.
Install exactly what came off your car. |
Damn near all VW CVs have the spreader bars, very few of them have any sort of lock washer, none of them had loctite. I have installed THOUSANDS of these bolts without lock washers or loctite & never had any come loose. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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rodknu Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2022 Posts: 26 Location: Montana
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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TDCTDI,
Thanks for that input. INTERESTING, in view of the other comments ) Since I have owned a number of VW's but only two that had the CV bolts back out. The Vanagon backed out more than once... in fact lost an axel because of it... So, I am wondering what I may be doing wrong in view of what you are obviously doing right! Am I not torquing them correctly or is my tightening sequence wrong (diagonally across)... and I note my current 74 Super does NOT currently have washers but does have spreader bars... Duh? Can you offer any other comments???
Thanks, Rod
"Damn near all VW CVs have the spreader bars, very few of them have any sort of lock washer, none of them had loctite. I have installed THOUSANDS of these bolts without lock washers or loctite & never had any come loose." |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12860 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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I do the diagonal pattern, twice. The first time around feels like the bolts snug up, however, on the second pass, the first three or four bolts are loose-ish & this pass tightens them up. Also, FWIW, since I’m not using a torque wrench on them, I can guarantee that they are well beyond 25ftlbs. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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I used a torque wrench on the M8 triple square bolts when I installed a rebuilt transmission into my 1970 back in 2018.
The M8 triple square bolts on my 1971 Convertible have never been loosened/tightened/removed (I've had the 1971 since 1976). _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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runamoc Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5601 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hex headed axle bolts loose |
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Quote: |
Install exactly what came off your car. |
I removed an axle that had two of the torque plates...opposite each other on the CVJ. When I replaced it I used 3 plates _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
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