Author |
Message |
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:35 am Post subject: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
A problem developed with our 86 syncro 2.1 liter where the idle was getting stuck at 3K. I followed trouble shooting steps and then removed and inspected throttle body. Obvious signs of wear inside the housing and pretty confident that was the problem, so installed new one from GoWesty. Also installed new intake plenum seal and return spring.
https://gowesty.com/products/gowesty-throttle-valve-housing
It works great and after a couple of test drives all seems to be working correctly.
The van now idles at 1K. My understanding is that 850-900K is more ideal. I turned the idle adjust screw all the way in and it had no affect. So idle adjust screw all the way in and van idles at 1K. The van lives at 8,750'.
Maybe it's OK to be idling a bit faster than ideal (?) but I thought to ask here for any opinions, advice etc regarding this. Thanks! _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3102 Location: Bozeman MT
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:33 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Thanks for the review. I'm going to troubleshoot a high-idle issue this weekend and might be headed this direction too. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
the idle speed on the 2.1 is controlled by the idle control valve and the idle control unit. turning the idle screw only changes the response of the idle system to compensate for the screw.
this is nothing wrong with a high idle and in fact several things good... you maintain better oil pressure, better coolant flow, better camshaft lubrication, and it runs smoother.
they are set low for consumer expectations and to meet manufacturer CAFE standards where every little smidgen of economy improvement is significant. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:56 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
I've nearly always found slightly high idle associated with small vacuum leaks. Your local auto parts house probably has some new hose, or you can order from the usual vendors too. It is a good idea to have a few feet of vacuum hose stashed in the bus, along with a few feet of fuel hose, etc. My problem is having ordered it, and stashed it, now I forget where it was that I put it... I know I've got some, but where! My PO had a nice stash in the "electric drop cord" location next to the under seat storage box in a (North American) Westy... That is below your right elbow if you sit facing forward in the back right passenger spot. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Thanks to all and esp Dan.
As part of the trouble shooting I cleaned and confirmed proper function of the idle control valve (aka idle air control valve, cylinder shaped unit with electric connector?).
Also had previous problem with van not idling on cold start and so had the idle control unit module rebuilt (unit that lives behind right rear taillight.) and replaced the coolant temp sensor that also plays a part in the idle.
It’s good to know that the 1k idle is actually a plus! _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Steve Arndt Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005 Posts: 1777 Location: Boise, Idaho
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
The stock tac has some loose tolerance to it as well, probably +/- 50 rpms.
Mine always idles a hair over 1000 when warmed up. _________________ Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SCM Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011 Posts: 3102 Location: Bozeman MT
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
DanHoug wrote: |
turning the idle screw only changes the response of the idle system to compensate for the screw. |
Dan, could you clarify what you meant here? Turning the screw compensates for the screw? I'm assuming that's a typo.
My van's idle has slowly increased over the past couple years to where it's now around 1500+. You list some benefits to high idle but the downside I experience is a resultant SLAM when I shift my automatic into Drive. I also don't like how fast I approach intersections with my foot off the gas.
And then there's the occasional stalling at intersections on warm days but that could be unrelated. _________________ '91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
|
Back to top |
|
|
r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
The new TB eliminates bad / wrong air an old worn 30+ year old throttle body can let in.
The idle stabilizer system can only do so much.
Wrong air in old engines is a constant battle.
I would be happy to spend $300 a hole to fix my dual Solex carbs in my old Mercedes. In fact I would be ecstatic to about $1300 to fix the bad air from worn shafts and butterfly valves..... As it is, it is about a good $1000 just to machine each and there are two of them.....plus the rest of the rebuild.....
So a new TB is a good thing. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
high idle with an automatic can be problematic.... i come from a manual trans brain orientation so yes, 1500 would be a problem. but maybe not 1000.
what i meant about the idle screw is that the idle system will try to maintain the programmed rpm regardless of idle screw position.... WITHIN bounds. the procedure to set idle speed in the Bentley is two fold. one, you check that the throttle stop is correctly set to limit vacuum to the canister valve. then you measure the current of the idle stabilizer valve and set the throttle bypass or 'speed' screw to achieve a specified current thru the idle stabilier valve. when this is set correctly, changing the throttle bypass screw changes not the idle speed but the amount of current going thru the stabilizer valve, which is always working to maintain a constant idle speed. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Hmmm. Do u think I am OK with that idle screww turned all the way in? The process that u describe re measuring the current thru the idle stabilizer valve may be beyond my capabilities, but maybe not. I am not sure which component is the idle stabilizer valve?
I will try to find this info in my pdf copy of Bentley. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
markf1 wrote: |
Hmmm. Do u think I am OK with that idle screww turned all the way in? The process that u describe re measuring the current thru the idle stabilizer valve may be beyond my capabilities, but maybe not. I am not sure which component is the idle stabilizer valve?
I will try to find this info in my pdf copy of Bentley. |
given lack of tools/abilities... i would turn the screw OUT until the engine speeds up, if it will at all, then back it in a smidge until the speed lowers. this will POSSIBLY give the idle system a midpoint to raise and lower the rpm from. all assuming the system is working of course and if it IS working, you may see very little rpm change with the screw. if all else fails, lightly seat the screw and back it out 2 turns.
procedure explained on page 37 of the Digifant Pro Training Manual referenced in the Literature section of the Sticky: "Resources: Helpful web "links. Much information in the preceeding pages so don't skip those! _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jlrftype7 Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018 Posts: 3549 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
markf1 wrote: |
Hmmm. Do u think I am OK with that idle screww turned all the way in? The process that u describe re measuring the current thru the idle stabilizer valve may be beyond my capabilities, but maybe not. I am not sure which component is the idle stabilizer valve?
I will try to find this info in my pdf copy of Bentley. |
Idle Valve on top of the engine with the sort of segment hose going to it. _________________ '68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Thanks to you all again. Very helpful advice that I’m going to follow. I do have a pdf of that digifant pro training guide also.
We leave for a couple weeks of semi remote road trip on sat (day after tomorrow) I may use dan’s helpful procedure tomorrow, and then take a deeper dive into measuring the voltage after we return.
Thnaks again, super helpful! _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bajabones Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2019 Posts: 133 Location: Tacoma, WA
|
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
I have been learning how to tune my 2.1
I have the goWesty TB
I recommend hooking up a DC amp meter to the idle control valve
Then turn the TB screw in or out until the meter reads 430 MA
It will idle perfectly about 850RPM all the time _________________ 1990 Syncro Doka
2.1 DJ
Triple Knob
Solid shaft |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Thank you mr bajabones!
I have a multi meter but not sure that works as dc amp meter? I may need more specific info on how exactly you hook up the meter to the idle control valve.
I have to go back and re read the digifant pro training steps but, I think it says first dis connect the O2 sensor before measuring the amps?
I’m going to follow up on this. We r off for couple weeks in the canyon country. Leaving tomorrow so apologies if I can’t reply right away. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tpinthepack Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004 Posts: 810 Location: clearwater,florida
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:50 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
The Power Steering Pump and the AC Compressor will raise the idle also, maybe a wire there is involved. I think my idle goes to 1000 when a/c is on and in tight turns that increase pressure on that pump sensor. _________________ TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Thanks for your reply. Good info. I have removed the AC from the van including the compressor. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:07 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
Thanks for your reply. Good info. I have removed the AC from the van including the compressor.
Weird glitch caused this to post twice. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markf1 Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019 Posts: 286 Location: Telluride, Colorado
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:43 am Post subject: Re: New GoWesty Throttle Body |
|
|
markf1 wrote: |
Is this the component that I would attach the dc amp meter to?
Thanks! |
yes. make sure that you are attaching the ammeter in SERIES with the valve. this necessitates either have a male-female adapter harness or cutting the wire to the valve, which freaks some out. volts are checked with leads across terminals, amps checked in series. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|