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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:53 am Post subject: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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It seems like the exhaust options for these old engines are either 1) keep the stock muffler and tips or 2) opt for the super-expensive Sebring exhaust.
I long for someone to begin making extractor (header) exhausts for these engines again. Wouldn't bolting a header on add an instant 1-2 ponies by itself and even more with Okrasa heads and dual carbs?
I know there is an economy of scale thing probably at work here and the benefit just doesn't outweigh the cost when combined with the scarcity of our 36-ers, but still....
I keep my eyes on the classifieds for a 36hp header, but nothing yet. I did score a 40hp header a few years back, and I love that thing on my big bore 40hp engine.
Ted |
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:38 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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There are several options for 36hp.
Vintage Speed Stock style
Vintage Speed Abarth style (sounds REALLY good on my Okrasa)
Wolfsburg West Abarth style
CSP Sebring style
Stock 36hp aftermarket
There are more options now than there ever have been, I'm sure I missed a few. Just depends on your budget, performance needs...and how loud you want it to be.
On my Okrasa, I have a Vintage Speed Abarth, and modified their stainless j-tubes to work with stock heater boxes. Not many people at American car shows know what an Okrasa is...but most comment that it does NOT sound like a VW. |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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Thanks Motofly196. That is quite a listing of aftermarket mufflers!
I guess I'm looking more for the tuned, equal-length tubing type header systems. I should have been more specific.
In the absence of any header systems in the classifieds, I'll think about a vintage speed system for sure.
Ted |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 715 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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fl59bug wrote: |
Thanks Motofly196. That is quite a listing of aftermarket mufflers!
I guess I'm looking more for the tuned, equal-length tubing type header systems. I should have been more specific.
In the absence of any header systems in the classifieds, I'll think about a vintage speed system for sure.
Ted |
You can modify some porsche 356 bursch headers here's a link of a 36hp engine from the 1960s with them they modified them you can do the same they are still being made they come in different styles to some with a welded muffler some headers with a removable muffler so on so .. which ever style you please... there are some 356 headers also in the classifieds adds you can modify those as well....👇👇
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=766243 |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:38 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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More open tailpipes like TDE's and CSP Highflow on original muffler also add some power. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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AirCooledClassics Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2004 Posts: 292 Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:44 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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You can use a 1600 header. I like useing the 1 and3/8 oe mex header. I slot the holes to fit the Exhaust flange bolt . It needs to be bent in .which I do by bolting the exhaust to a dummy motor with the heads loose. I heat the exhaust elbows with a torch as someone tightens the heads.it bends the header, when tight let cool your done. I run j tubes cut down. You could flange the shoeboxes if you kept them .. the heat riser hole need to be slotted if you run a single carb _________________ 2010 Bonneville record holder Type 2, 36hp
NHRA Divisional Sports Compact Champion
My You-tube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJoq3MtsPmc
My National Dragster article
http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=231552 |
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Bub Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 1143 Location: Central Washington
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:11 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Option |
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AirCooledClassics wrote: |
You can use a 1600 header. I like useing the 1 and3/8 oe mex header. I slot the holes to fit the Exhaust flange bolt . It needs to be bent in .which I do by bolting the exhaust to a dummy motor with the heads loose. I heat the exhaust elbows with a torch as someone tightens the heads.it bends the header, when tight let cool your done. I run j tubes cut down. You could flange the shoeboxes if you kept them .. the heat riser hole need to be slotted if you run a single carb |
What he ^ said. Nearly Any Type 1 VW header/ extractor system could be tweaked just a little and fit a 36hp.
But, I do have to throw a *whine* into this. The prices Vintage speed or CSP charges is absolutely insane. F*ck those guys. For $1300 I can put a full Miltek catback system on my S6. I purposely avoid those vendors just because it's offensive to me that they do that. It's nice stuff, but I'm not paying for their Top Gear Uk style production team to make fancy videos of their products. _________________
hitest wrote: |
Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7182 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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BUB. Quality cost money. Low production numbers makes the pices higher. The days of the 59,95 4 tuned header is (luckily) over since they were absolutely crap both from a performance- and a quality point of view.
That said, 90% of all 36 & 40 hp engines are better off with a shorty header type exhaust. The 4tuned may give you 1 - 1½ hp more on top, but a proper shorty header will improve the power in the driving rpms much more. (A 36 hp will never get up in the rpms where a 4tuned header will make a real difference)
Next problem is, that there are almost mu systems like that available, so you are almost back to square one, where you have to modify a stock muffler yourself, or bite the bullet and buy say the VS. - It works well, as do several of their newer systems. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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5500 Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2020 Posts: 112 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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I opted for the CSP sebring style unit. I had many people tell me it would kill low end and midrange on my 1397 WW/okrasa stlye motor. It makes plenty of low end power, pulls nicely from about 2200 and feels real strong around 2800, sounds great and I'm getting about 26 mpg in mixed driving. It installed easily, without drama and doesn't leak. Only drawback is ground clearance... need to be careful pulling into steep driveways. |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:25 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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AirCooledClassics wrote: |
You can use a 1600 header. I like useing the 1 and3/8 oe mex header. I slot the holes to fit the Exhaust flange bolt . It needs to be bent in .which I do by bolting the exhaust to a dummy motor with the heads loose. I heat the exhaust elbows with a torch as someone tightens the heads.it bends the header, when tight let cool your done. I run j tubes cut down. You could flange the shoeboxes if you kept them .. the heat riser hole need to be slotted if you run a single carb |
Ingenious.... I'll give this some serious consideration.
Ted |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:31 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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Alstrup wrote: |
...
That said, 90% of all 36 & 40 hp engines are better off with a shorty header type exhaust.
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Alstrup, if you and I are talking about the same thing, this shorty header is what I lament being NLA. I was fortunate to find one for my big bore 40hp some time back.
Ted |
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AirCooledClassics Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2004 Posts: 292 Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7182 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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AirCooledClassics wrote: |
Alstrup Please explain to me the statement about the 59,95 header what is this , and specificly what is a short header. I’m curious |
It was a generic pricing, meaning cheap and crappy headers which were available, and sold in mass numbers back in the days. People bought and used them because they were cheap and they did´nt know better. Today we know how bad they often were.
As I have expained several times, slower reving engines pull better overall power with a shorty header than a 4 tuned. The 4 tuned will most of the time yield best peak hp, but the poorest torque in the driving rpms.
shorty header mufflers like the real Sebring and the VS equal length SS143 mufflers work well for such engines.
The Mosquito and whatever they are called vintage headers work, shall we call it ok on mild engines and fair on nippy engines, but it - is - still a step on the way in the development back in the late 50´s and early 60´s. If you want a looker and can live with the noise its the one to get. If you want to make, you should consider other options.
We are basicly back to the statement "Yeah it runs great" sure, compared to what?
I am aware that most of the vintage car building is attitude and looks. That is fine as such. I am just telling you what happens in real life. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:53 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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For the hard of understanding, does anyone have an example picture of a "shorty" header and a "4 tuned" header?
Asking for a friend, lol....
Ted |
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Tall Bloke Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2005 Posts: 234 Location: UK>Ohio>UK
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scotty timmerman Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2010 Posts: 997 Location: gigharbor W.A
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9603 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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Beautiful and very impressive work on the header, scotty! Did you research the pipe lengths via basic header theory? Did you do any mock-ups with some easy to bend pipes such as corrugated plastic, to see how you can bend and shape the system in the small space between back of engine and the apron?
For fl59bug's inquiry about the "$59.95 4Tuned header"- it probably would've looked like this unnamed one for a 36 hp- very similar in appearance to one on 40 hp and 1500+ engines- from Axel Andersson's gallery. Muffler itself would've been the prevalent glasspack with chromed tip. |
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fl59bug Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005 Posts: 1976 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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Thank you Rome!
Now that I know what a 36hp "4 tuned" header looks like, I'm wondering if someone can provide a photo of the "shorty" header that Alstrup mentioned:
... slower reving engines pull better overall power with a shorty header than a 4 tuned ...
Ted |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: 36hp Performance Exhaust Options |
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scotty timmerman wrote: |
I built my own 1 3/8 header for my 36hp.
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Scotty, is the peashooter on the right a dummy? If not how is the muffler inlet and outlet routed? _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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