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steve244
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Joined: March 18, 2022
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Location: GA
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| steve244 wrote: |
| drier gas is most important, but I doubt it's worth paying extra for nitrogen to get it. |
Oh for sure on the street.....it's pretty much worthless....unless...... you are driving some kind of super car whose tires....or active suspension.....has a sensitivity to 1-2 psi variation that it cannot compensate for.
That last part is "kind of" ....or part of what I was getting at in my last post. In real road racing.....Le Mans,, Daytona ....F1 level cars....real race cars....1-3 psi can mean real handling issues the way those cars are tuned.
The vast majority of street/passenger cars....no.
But there is an ARTIFICIAL problem created here with LOT of new luxury level cars. If they havd a lot of HP and are tuned stupidly high....think like some of the AMG Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, BMW etc. A lot of these all wheel drive, 6-8 speex or CVT luxury sport "sleds" ....their active suspension can react and tweak things based on very small tire pressure variations.
Part of this is active tire pressure sensing (that in itself is not new)....but along with differential speed sensors, ride height sensors, wheel rotation speed sensing by ABS sensors....and most importantly, because of a ridiculous shit ton of software and code.....it can cause odd handling.
Does this mean unsafe driving? Maybe.....but it would be noticeable, especially as tires wear, suspension parts wear or in bad/wet/slick weather.
This issue alone.....the overly "sensored" luxury sport sector.....is probably what has driven the cottage industry of "Nitrogen tire filling" at the street level because you get powerful cars that can be overly sensitive to tire pressure, driven too quickly by people with no extraneous driving skills who only want to look good going to the country club with no drama.
And.....the crowd I am describing....has the disposable cash to drop on stuff like nitrogen in the tires. Ray |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:43 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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I've worked at places that offered the Nitrogen service. It was sold as more of a tire protection insurance than pressure stability/tire life.
We had a realtor that was always getting nails in her Buicks tires. It literally paid for two sets of 4tires over a 3-year period of her services. Think it was 49.95 a year.
Quite a few more that tires were either replaced or repaired "free" of charge. There was a cap on payout of repairs or replacements per incident.
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
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oprn
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Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12743
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:14 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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I see no connection whatsoever between nitrogen fill and tire punctures!
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scottyrocks
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2016
Posts: 2666
Location: Long Island, NY
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:57 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| some dealers have the machine that sucks down the tires, then nitragen fills them then sucks them down again and refils again, they can set the up&down exchange to 5 times from what a acura teck budy told me this weekend. |
Despite all the math and science, I still think I'm a fan of the suck-and-blow method.
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steve244
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Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1668
Location: GA
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
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Location: Hot Arizona
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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I think some of you are missing the point of why nitrogen is used for many things.
Fractional distillation of air to separate oxygen and argon ect..... and liquid nitrogen, pressurized nitrogen could be a waste product of that process, thus costing virtually nothing but the tank to hold it.
Smoke it if you got it, but if it isn't easily available then don't worry about it.
Air is available and free everywhere, so you won't run out.
Or another way to look at it is you would be far better off to sell the oxygen and agron in your tires. Tires would work 1% better AND you would profit, but you just don't have the equipment to do it.  |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| modok wrote: |
I think some of you are missing the point of why nitrogen is used for many things.
Fractional distillation of air to separate oxygen and argon ect..... and liquid nitrogen, pressurized nitrogen could be a waste product of that process, thus costing virtually nothing but the tank to hold it.
Smoke it if you got it, but if it isn't easily available then don't worry about it.
Air is available and free everywhere, so you won't run out.
Or another way to look at it is you would be far better off to sell the oxygen and agron in your tires. Tires would work 1% better AND you would profit, but you just don't have the equipment to do it. |
Oh yes! In several sectors of my industry ...we use nitrogen in processes like UV curing as an anti-oxidization blanket against the ozone created by the lamps and electrodes to protect the substrate.
In others we use nitrogen as a "cap" inside of containers or in machines to prevent oxygen contact with certain chemicals and solvents. Again....anti-oxidization.
I think this is also what several people in this thread stated is the sometimes advertised purpose of nitrogen in tires.....to prevent oxidation of the rubber.
Of course this should work....
But it begs the question.....that unless your tires are going to be in use for say....a decade.....if otherwise they oxidize in the short term enough to matter.....what does that say about the quality of the tires you are buying? Ray |
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steve244
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Location: GA
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:48 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| steve244 wrote: |
| Not to mention the oxidation that continues at a furious pace on the outside of the tire. |
Well.....that's why shortly....I will be marketing my patented "Nitrogen and spf 50,".... tire ointment specifically to prevent the oxidization on the outside!
Only $65 a bottle...treats 4 tires and a spare! Available at a Porsche, Audi, Mercedes or BMW dealer near you
Ray |
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:36 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| this thread is so funny. reading the cheepass vw mentality point of view on something that cost $$ and is not oe vw. somethings cant be fixed. |
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steve244
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Joined: March 18, 2022
Posts: 1668
Location: GA
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:03 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| oprn wrote: |
| I see no connection whatsoever between nitrogen fill and tire punctures! |
There really isn't.. but when you buy the Nitrogen tire fill service, it usually includes and tire hazard protection plan that is good for one year.
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_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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ubercrap
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 01, 2004
Posts: 1060
Location: Ridley Park, PA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:48 am Post subject: Re: BS nitrogen tire fills topic |
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| oprn wrote: |
Ya, I have 3 tandem trailers, 2 single axle trailers and a boat trailer in the yard. The only one with tubes is the tandem we built in the late '60s out of 2 '54 Buick front ends. I replaced the tires on it last summer and they had to have tubes because the rims back then were not designed to hold air for tubeless tires. Two of the original tubes were still good but the other two had to be replaced.
Yes bikes and motorcycles still use tubes. |
Bicycles are moving more and more towards tubeless now for quite a few years.
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