Meet the Bergmann Bomb!

[67rustavenger]

Read through this .pdf today. Regarding Mahle bearings.
https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/media/local-medi...1-205r.pdf

They explain, that, you should measure rod bearings at the thrust area.
Rather than the split.
Hint, the splits are tapered. If I understood the information, presented.
Makes sense. The bearing thrust is on the top and bottom of the bearings. Not at the split!
I may be explaining the thrust incorrectly. But, I'm sure you get the idea.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[modok]

I just recalled your center main was too tight around page 7 and you fixed it somehow which I missed or wasn't mentioned, and that's fine, I'm not asking how. is what I meant about the the dull screwdriver joke.
Getting the clearances right is higher importance than a gram or two or most of the things we fret over, was the point.

Most usually chamfer the parting edges of the rod so your balance bearing would hang up on that tiny groove if you had done that.
You don't need to have a PHD in connecting rods to build an engine.
probably good enough either way.
Usually what you don't know at all that tends to become a problem.

The first part of the CLEVITE catalog is all good stuff, and in there you will read about .001 per 1 clearance and when you want to be more or less.
Flexy case and crank and bearings with zero eccentricity are reasons for more.
thinner oil and bearings with a soft & thick babbit layer allow less.

[Clatter]

Now that we got some rods installed...

Moved on to (trying) to install cylinders.
Oh, the joys of a (China) 94 cylinder and 10mm head studs.

Here's the burr i used, Perry.

Hog, check, hog some more, check again, repeat...


Forgot to deep-stud #3.

At first i thought to just grab a short stud and roll with it,
But a big turbo motor needs deep-studded as bad as any,
Right?

But see how it broke through into the bore?
Looks like an oil leak breeding there.
Any ideas?
How you guys plug that one?
Was thinking of maybe making a sleeve, or threading half an insert in there as a spacer or something?
Not sure a big blob of RTV would seal that once the insert is sunk and it's just a big hole there.



Decided to get the heads out.
They had been "all fixed up" by a shop in San Jose after the valve head came off.
Broke out my Tabari CC plate.
HHhhmmm... 50ccs in one head, 52 in the other.

Did some lapping to check out the valve job.
The un-damaged head has some of those CB single-groove valves in and a nice valve job (and 52ccs).
The other side, the "fixed up" one, not so much.
A mix of different 3-groove-lock valves,
That,
um,
Didn't quite fit.

Hopefully properly sinking those valves will get me my 2ccs.

With case decked and 50cc chamber volume,
8:1 is going to take a deck of around .187.

Not sure dished pistons are in the cards at this point.
Maybe a semi-hemi?
Not really sure what to do.
I know another set of heads is the right answer,
But the blood has been flowing a little too freely here lately.


Spring shims were all cocked crooked not seating home - even after springs installed.
"Here you go kid. All fixed up".

Trying to put heads on, studs were off.

Tap-tapping them home with the rubber mallet,
Finally figured out the cylinders need clearanced all the way up.

Nice collection of chips, eh?

When you start making chips like this,
Red flag.
Stop.
You're getting pissed.

Find something else to do for a while..
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[67rustavenger]

Thanks for the image of the fine burr bit.
I bought a set of those Friday. They'll hopefully get put into service today.
Do you lube the fine burr's like you do when you're cleaning up a case. You know, "wax."

Never mind. The double fluted burr bits, and cast iron. Don't need any lubricant. Just keep the rpm's up, and the chips fly, easily.

Regarding the deep stud insert.
It is a blind hole. Plus it's high up in the case and really doesn't see any pressure .
Just some oil splash from the crank slinging oil up there.
I'd drive the insert in and seal the cylinder as you'd normally do, "RTV."
My damaged case had the insert "break through" too. It never really leaked there after assembly.
It leaked everywhere else.

Don't forget, this is fun! Right?
If your pissed off. You're gonna make a huge costly mistake, that can shorten the life of, your already sketchy turbo build.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[Clatter]

Couple more days of my life to this thing...


First was the task of getting off the too-big-on-the-OD shims they smashed partway onto the head.
Tried a few different implements of destruction,
Drilling holes and chiseling out with an old screwdriver worked.
Didn't chew up the head -too- much..

Carving grooves in the side of cylinders was proving frustrating.
Seemed like i was chasing my tail.

Came to where i did just two studs on one cylinder, got the head going off/on with them.
Then added studs and clearanced for them one at a time, until all four were straight and allowing the head on smoothly.
Having the other studs and cylinder out of the way allows better marking.

Having the studs rattle-canned black they mark the holes going on/off showing interference.

Then came the long task of cleaning up 16 burred-up cylinder shims covered in Yamabond...

-Finally- got the cylinders sitting on the case registers flat.
Sweet Jesus! What a PITA.

Whenever i used this deck plate tool on a real motor the nuts just snug down and there's your reading.
Now that I'm doing 94s with 10mm studs and all these shims i know why you guys preach to torque nuts tight to get a reading!
The deck/studs/shims are all so sloppy the number changes dramatically depending upon how tight the nuts are.
Oddly enough, setting a stop shows this degree pulley is dead nuts for zero.
Cool cool. We''ll take a small win.

Then thinking and drinking more on CR...
Trying out the shims we have...

52cc heads, .048 deck, 10.4:1 CR...
Perfect!
Some IDAs, a 1 5/8 - 1 3/4 step header and done!

Your traditional 8:1 was what they were running before.
Ugh. .168 deck.

Taking a shim off,
Getting to 8.3:1 would be a bit less piggy, maybe?

Threw those 8.3 shims on and did a bit of geometry checking,
Just to see where we were at with pushrods and geometry.
Seems like this cam isn't flat and the gear is actually straight up.
More good news.
The pushrods were all cut to within a few thou of each other.
Except for the three that were bent.

Geometry was obviously setup for another shim, or at least close.
Here's half lift.

Running these old Autocraft roller rockers before,
Getting the geometry right will involve shaving rocker bases a bit,
Or more likely some thicker lash caps.

So,
Yeah,
I'm not buying three pushrods and running the old 8.1.
I'll go ahead and buy a whole set and pick my CR.

But what CR?


Motor came clear back apart for a deep stud on #3,
And the heads in for a valve job.

We'll get a set of pushrods, some lash caps, and glue this thing together here soon.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

[chrisflstf]

Deck heigth will decrease about .005" on a cylinder that is torqued down, as opposed to just sitting there

[VWporscheGT3]

dude i dont know whether to laugh or cry... i just... wow... im sorry bro , every buggin turn.
_________________
Schnell, SCHNELL!

I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?

If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line.

[madmike]

_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[67rustavenger]

Did I read that right? You have three bent connecting rods?
I thought I read that you had the rods checked out by a mechanic and they, checked out good to do?

Jeez, and someone was telling me my shit was fucked up!

If you have a spare AA 5.4 rod on hand. I have three good ones that came out of my 2180. The fourth is slightly burnt and questionable.

If you wanna go up in rod length. I can make ya a smoken deal on a set of 5.5 AA's that were balanced by DPR, recently!

Man that's some great head reconditioning! Is that from your machine shop?
I hope not!

Chin up there big fella. I don't think it can get any worse..... Can it?
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[modok]

I wish I could show you how to fix it all, not necessarily hard to do....with the right tools, but is it worth it..... not really.... but what is?
I have a set of almost four 5.4 rods too, I fixed the bad one but now it's a 5.392? rod. At the moment. Or so. Could make them equal but..... maybe it is waiting for a crooked decked case or something like that.

Not the first time necessarily.... Bergman didn't seem to, um, "believe" in valve seats.
Not saying he is to blame but he sure COULD be.

[Clatter]

Ok, want to make sure nobody misunderstands here..

I'm lucky to have access to possibly the most experienced still-practicing automotive machinist in the world.
Mr. Musich has been an automotive (or aircraft or motorcycle) mechanic/machinist his whole long life.
With a specialty in aircooled VWs...
He has done literally thousands of motors.

He is a national treasure.
I am nothing without him.
If he retires i will find another hobby.

Brought him those Eagle H-beams saying some guys on the Internet were worried about these two bolts.
He dragged out this huge rod clamp jig and put it into his vise.
Holding the rod in the jig, he used a speed brace to run the bolts in and out.
He declared the bolts OK and that is that.
Never asked him to check them for straightness, or he woulda!
When he did, they were bent!
He might have straightened them, as he rebuilds rods,
But these he says the little end is so thin and small and fragile, and they were bent so badly, he didn't think it's worth it.
So we'll get some new ones...

Just today my friend Jeff was bringing some rods and a case back from him,
So i had to take a couple of pics.
This guy's the real deal gents.
These are just stock 311B rods,
But they are beautiful and perfect.
These times are drawing to a close gentlemen.

Something about a case done by the man is inspiring as well.

Anyways,
When i brought my CB heads to him to look at,
He could tell at a glance that they had the wrong valves in.
Didn't even get them out the back of the car.
I'll get eight new valves and keepers and retainers from CB and he'll have a look.
Hopefully, they'll pass muster.

That brings me to my ongoing conundrum with The Bomb here...
Because these "Street Elimnator" heads only have 52cc chambers,
And few cooling fins,
And the resto of the motor keeps getting better,
The temptation to buy some real heads grows daily.

Some wedge-ports with like 61cc chambers would be far better suited, no?

Couple that with the short-rod theory we discuss in Perry's thread, and the fact that i have an early car with a small compartment,
Maybe i could go down to some 5.4 rods, or even 5.325...?
I don't want to chop cylinders,
So it starts getting a bit difficult to make a decision.

Stupid stupid to just go at it like this!!
You're supposed to have a plan and work it,
Not just throw shit together based upon what comes up for cheap!

Anyhow,
I'll be mocking stuff, do some more ciphering, and see if those CB heads are rebuildable.
Only then, based upon different scenarios and possibilities, will i know the path to take.

Otherwise, maybe I'll just buy some shit and throw it together!
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[67rustavenger]

[Clatter]

Two weeks gone and a bunch of parts i got are here.

Some more shit to just throw together!

Manton pushrods and some bolt-on valve cover hardware from AA,
Valves/springs/keepers from CB,
And a new set of 5.5 rods from Perry for a smokin' deal.
Thanks again my man.

Also a set of lightly-used Scat 1.4s with the blocks shaved from Dan Ruddock.

Anybody know what size nuts these are?
1/2" and 13mm are too small.
Neither 9/16" or 14mm seem to really fit.
Maybe Scat uses Whitworth nuts or something?

Putting the new valves into the damaged head gave good results.
A quick lap showed an OK valve job.
Probably pretty good but I'm spoiled by Jim.
They didn't leak and got me 52ccs on each hole to match the other head.
So we'll call it a win.

Some exhaust studs were inserted, but others were wiggly and/or not drilled straight.

Time-Sert kit with some deeper inserts and 10.9 threaded rod should do the trick.

Trying to clamp to drill press table was interesting.
Finally figured out to use the other side exhaust studs to clamp to table.

While in Albuquerque i got to visit my longtime friend and master Porsche race engine builder Lee.
He gave me a box of old junk he had lying around.

This project just took another turn!

Wonder how many of the original parts I'll have left by the time it's done?
Maybe i can just put them all together and sell them on Craigslist!
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[vince1]

This look like a Quick tune ECU, I bet it won't work with the gen4 program.

You should look at the links in this page :

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/7072.htm
_________________
my French blog https://vwpanelvan.wordpress.com/

Click here for my full pix detailed 2165 engine build with beehive valvetrain.

Sorry for my poor English, I'm a French guy ...

[67rustavenger]

Your welcome on the rods. If it can help ya get this pile running. I'm happy to help where I can.

I'll measure my Scat rocker nuts in a bit and report back.

Lee, Hooked ya up!
I hear that the electronic boost controller can be a bear to get sorted. I have one and will make an effort to get it sorted.
Once my pile-o-parts is together.
That is, if the Fucking Mahle rod bearings from AA will ever get here. 10 days from So Cal to Oregon? Gimme a break!

Do you know what the CC of those injectors are?
And did Lee use them in an engine similar to your build?
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[67rustavenger]

OG Scat rocker jam nut measure 13.87mm. WTF?
I was using a 14mm wrench on them and Fd them up.

I bought replacement 14mm jam nuts from Ace Hardware.
Now my wrench fits as it should.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[EVfun]

[madmike]

I have that same Wide band 'PLX' works great! Lee fixed u up
Cheers,Mike
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[Clatter]

OK, more stuff happened...

Mostly studying everything EFI i could find.
Yes, that is indeed a QuickTune EFI.
Lee moved on to Gen 4, then got a new laptop.
This Gen 3 seems better for a digital EFI newb.
Simpler is better for now I'd think.
Probably will run the car with carbs first just to verify everything works.

Started messing with a header but it was so dang crusty i had it blasted.

Was worried it would be all deeply rust pitted, but a pleasant surprise for a change.
Some phosphoric will keep it nice for welding and mods for now.

Rods from Perry all weighed exactly the same!

Here's how DPR removed material.

Gave them the spray groove mod.
Turbo motors need piston squirters, right?
Notice that the crank is relieved so at TDC the oil spills off anyways.
Maybe the notch will help it hit the wrist pin...?

Bearings all ended up at .003.
Close enough for a hot running motor i guess.

Rockers with shaved blocks hit the stand bosses.
Marked with marker to see where.

Removed a little of each until they moved freely.
tried to save as much material all around as possible.

Wondering if i should upgrade to a bit longer rocker studs?
Think this is enough thread?
Any shims and I'll definitely need studs.

Went around and did little stuff.
Started gluing in galley plugs and adding relief valves.
Oil pump studs were missing, stuff like that.

Checked stroker clearances again.
A tight fit!

Anyways, i was gearing up to glue the short block together.
Lower end stuff would take up less room if it was together.
But,
As i look more closely at that damn center main bearing,
It takes a smidge more than 25 ft. lbs. to close up -all- of the light between center main saddles.

But,
Alas,
If i take the six studs up from 25 to 28 ft.lbs,
The crank starts to turn just a bit stiffly...


So it's clear back apart again to likely sand on a center main bearing some more...

Here's hoping i find a dowel pin slightly too long..
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?