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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2312 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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Yes, I just found it ........... thanks! _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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BCE56 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2013 Posts: 358 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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For those who have Subie conversions:
What RPM range do you see at freeway speeds- 65-70 MPH?
Please supply details about your rig.
Mine: Syncro Tintop, 4500# fully loaded.
EJ22, 215/75R 15, .85:1 (stock) 4th gear = 35-3600 RPM.
This after trans rebuild w/ stock ratio 4th gear.
(I figure the tire diameter is worth about 7-8% overdrive, factored in speedo/odometer error and MPG calculation, and verified by GPS.)
Previously, with .77:1 4th, Van cruised comfortably and efficiently: 32-3400 RPM at 65-70 MPH on level highways.
But uphill grades required early downshifts.
Stock gear ratio was selected to close the gap between 3rd and 4th, and to minimize the need to downshift on grades. _________________ =BCE56=
'86 Syncro tintop
EJ22, OBD II early SC adapter plate conversion
Side project: '69 Frankenbug "It's alive!" |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3786 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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What RPM range do you see at freeway speeds- 65-70 MPH?
Please supply details about your rig.
Mine: 2wd loaded Westy
EJ22, 215/65R 16,
Stock gearing, I believe I see around 3800 65-70mph. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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kewilso3 Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2021 Posts: 42 Location: NC
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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I have a subaru trans, 4.44 r+p, so 70mph is ~3000rpm with 27" tires.
My lazy question is, in my 2wd doka without a rear heater or AC, what do the 3 climate control sliders control? The middle dash vent always blasts cold air (outside air, happens to be cold now) no matter how a arrange the sliders. Upper defrost vent blows hot, lower footwell vents blow hot, but the mid dash vent pointed straight at my crotch blows cold all the time, fan on or off. Is there a fresh air vent somewhere I am missing?
Last edited by kewilso3 on Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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kewilso3 wrote: |
I have a subaru trans, 4.4 r+p, so 70mph is ~3000rpm with 27" tires.
My lazy question is, in my 2wd doka without a rear heater or AC, what do the 3 climate control sliders control? The middle dash vent always blasts cold air (outside air, happens to be cold now) no matter how a arrange the sliders. Upper defrost vent blows hot, lower footwell vents blow hot, but the mid dash vent pointed straight at my crotch blows cold all the time, fan on or off. Is there a fresh air vent somewhere I am missing? |
That is the way the earlier Vanagons were set up, have you tried shutting off the air flow, that is what the control on each vent is supposed to do. |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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kewilso3 wrote: |
Upper defrost vent blows hot, lower footwell vents blow hot, but the mid dash vent pointed straight at my crotch blows cold all the time, fan on or off. Is there a fresh air vent somewhere I am missing? |
This sounds like the issue with the "air box" on Vanagons where there simply is no stock 'fresh air' shutoff. There have been a few threads on how to deal with this in a DIY manner, and there is a product that can be purchased. I've gotten several of the aftermarket/custom kits, and I like them. I have also used the duct tape method, which involves taping up the air inlet behind the upper grill (WBX) or just the grill in AC Vanagons..
Take a look at the kit that the long-timer here called tencentlife has on his Vanaistan shop at https://intrepidoverland.com/
(no affiliation, but I've purchased a variety of kits from him and have yet to be anything other than impressed or satisfied) _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 669
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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BCE56 wrote: |
For those who have Subie conversions:
What RPM range do you see at freeway speeds- 65-70 MPH?
Please supply details about your rig.
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Mine: 2.5 JDM westy 2wd
Drive by wire
Stock gears except for 4th (opted for a taller gear)
215/65R 16
65-70 is 3600ish
75 puts me near 4k _________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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BCE56 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2013 Posts: 358 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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Thanks for RPM reports.
My concern at trans rebuild was to close the gap between 3rd and (.77) 4th gear installed by P.O.
That combo was excellent on level highway at +/- 70MPH and consistently returned MPG in the low-mid 20s on regular gas.
But my Van bogged down on long uphill grades such as Grapevine, Cajon and mountain passes.
These required downshifts to 3rd, RPMs around 5000 to maintain 55-60 MPH. This caused elevated motor temps, especially in hot weather.
I calculated approx. 300 RPM higher at 70 MPH with .85 4th, limited testing looks more like 400 RPM.
Now I wonder if I have outsmarted myself.
How will those higher RPMs affect gas mileage and engine temps at hwy speeds?
Guess I'll find out next road trip... _________________ =BCE56=
'86 Syncro tintop
EJ22, OBD II early SC adapter plate conversion
Side project: '69 Frankenbug "It's alive!" |
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 669
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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BCE56 wrote: |
Thanks for RPM reports.
My concern at trans rebuild was to close the gap between 3rd and (.77) 4th gear installed by P.O.
That combo was excellent on level highway at +/- 70MPH and consistently returned MPG in the low-mid 20s on regular gas.
But my Van bogged down on long uphill grades such as Grapevine, Cajon and mountain passes.
These required downshifts to 3rd, RPMs around 5000 to maintain 55-60 MPH. This caused elevated motor temps, especially in hot weather.
I calculated approx. 300 RPM higher at 70 MPH with .85 4th, limited testing looks more like 400 RPM.
Now I wonder if I have outsmarted myself.
How will those higher RPMs affect gas mileage and engine temps at hwy speeds?
Guess I'll find out next road trip... |
Thats interesting
My temps drop going up grades while in 3rd vs 4th
My process:
1 pay more attention to the temps than speed
2 dont go over 4k rpm's (maybe 4300 max)
3 shift down and stay glued to the right lane if i cant keep up
get between 23-25 mpg
T _________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4333 Location: United States, Iowa
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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I've noticed a little engine oil or trans oil, not sure of which, at the bottom seam of the trans/engine. When I had them apart last, I put in new trans seal behind the throw-out bearing, and the engine main seal. I don't remember a felt seal, but I've heard of them now. I don't know if that would be a reason I am now seeing a small seepage, but it is going to be time to put in seals again soon. Also, at that same time, I tried like a MF to get the pilot bearing out, but was not successful. I don't have any hints of the pilot bearing having problems at this time but i might be wrong.
Question; I now have 67K miles on a Sachs clutch/PP set, so is that the 'right amount' to just get another whole kit, or would just the clutch disk itself be a good-enough solution? I am NOT having any clutching issues at this time, just wanting to fix the seepage, and absolutely KNOW it would be stupid to ONLY replace seals.
Also, I've seen some threads on removing the pilot bearing, but have since lost the info on the size of aluminum dowel to purchase to be ready. Anyone know offhand the diameter of that dowel?
-bobby _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch
Last edited by bobbyblack on Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BCE56 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2013 Posts: 358 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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shagginwagon83: stock gears, 215/65R16, 3800 @ 65-70mph.
space: OD 4th gear, 215/65R16, 65-70 is 3600ish
Mine: stock gears, 215-75R15, 36-3700 @ 65-70 MPH
Tire diameters approx. the same (a wash).
I assume stock R&P in our transaxles. (Except kwilso3.)
...I reckon we're all in about the same zone.
.........................
space:
"My temps drop going up grades while in 3rd vs 4th
My process:
1 pay more attention to the temps than speed
2 dont go over 4k rpm's (maybe 4300 max)
3 shift down and stay glued to the right lane if i cant keep up
get between 23-25 mpg"
Mine:
Temps rise on uphill grades regardless of gear.
But drop to below normal on long downhills.
1 I watch temp, RPM and speed.
2 I upshift at 4000-4400, a bit higher if necessary.
On uphill grades I downshift at 2800- (EJ22 won't
accelerate under 2200 in 4th.)
3 I hate to hold up traffic, so I will sometimes push it a little harder than usual for a short while. This is why I opted for stock ratio 4th gear.
On road trips of 1000-2200 miles, I got about 24 MPG w/ OD 4th. (This may change w/ stock ratio.) I check mileage of each full tank, and average for round trips.
I find road conditions, especially winds, and vehicle speed significantly affect gas mileage.
*My Syncro HATES headwinds. Not too fond of quartering crosswinds either.*
In town I usually get 15-16 MPG, seldom less. 4th gear is not a factor, 3rd gets me 35+ MPH at 3000 RPM.
Gas formulation seems to be a factor- higher ethanol content and "summer blends" in metro areas are no help.
Ethanol belongs in Bourbon. Not in your gas tank!
70 MPH seems to be an efficient speed. Above that, wind drag (and noise) become excessive and gas mileage suffers accordingly.
Now. What is the best cruise RPM for our Vans? _________________ =BCE56=
'86 Syncro tintop
EJ22, OBD II early SC adapter plate conversion
Side project: '69 Frankenbug "It's alive!" |
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 669
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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"What is the best cruise RPM for our Vans?"
mid to upper 3000's _________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2312 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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space wrote: |
"What is the best cruise RPM for our Vans?"
mid to upper 3000's |
70 MPH at approximately 3125 RPMs with 4.57 R&P and .77 4th (215/75/15 tires)
My new transmission should be about 2800 RPMs with 4.13 R&P and .77 4th and going with a 1.22 3rd opposed to a 1.14 and same tires. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2301 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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I'm always confused why some people think lower rpms is 'better' or more efficient, or gives better mpg. OK, it CAN be, but not necessarily, and not that often in Real Life driving situations. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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space Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017 Posts: 669
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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fxr wrote: |
I'm always confused why some people think lower rpms is 'better' or more efficient, or gives better mpg. OK, it CAN be, but not necessarily, and not that often in Real Life driving situations. |
I agree
in my instance dropping down a gear seems to keep the van cooler and happier than trying to power up a hill in 4th (despite running at higer rpms)
in 4th im struggling to get the 4k rpms so I drop down to third
1. rpms higher
2. temps start to drop
4000-4300 is approx the end of my vans power "band"
ie doesnt seem to have any more power left
as stated I am focused on the temps more than anything
lugging up a hill at -2k will prolly toast the gears
having an 82 w/o the odo probably killed my 4th gear (not knowing rpms and temps)
_________________ 82 westy
w:
2.5 JDM Subie
Rear discs |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2312 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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fxr wrote: |
I'm always confused why some people think lower rpms is 'better' or more efficient, or gives better mpg. OK, it CAN be, but not necessarily, and not that often in Real Life driving situations. |
I'm not seeking better MPGs... I'm satisfied with 32 to 34 MPG with daily driving and almost 26 MPGs pulling a popup camper.
The ALH TDI engine is at peak torque at about 1900 RPMs. It can move a Jetta/Passat down the highway at 70 MPH spinning about 2250 RPMs with lots of power waiting to be tapped.
Although I addressed sound deadening and tried two different engine mounting systems, I believe lower RPMs in top gear will help with the vibes.
I do have a McNally EGT gauge among numerous other gauges as well as Scan Gauge and the Jetta Cluster. So, I monitor the engine.
Going with the 1.22 3rd gear is gearing down (shorter) than the 1.14. The intent is to be at about the same RPM in 3rd with the 1.22 and 4.13 R&P as with the 1.14 and the 4.57 R&P. I mulled over this decision for a long time. I will notice a difference pulling out in 1st. I see no concern for 2nd gear.
The busted gear in the above post is not uncommon in these high mileage transmissions. The OE bearing for 4th gear is in a plastic cage... that gear is high and dry compared to the others and it does run hot So, when the plastic gives up the ghost at 4000+ RPMs, well, don't be surprised in the carnage that results.
So, there you have it. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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bobbyblack wrote: |
…I've seen some threads on removing the pilot bearing… |
Bobby,
I’ve never had any luck with the “dowel method” although I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you.
That sucker is a tight fit when new & I think it kinda gets baked in place as the miles go by.
I’d recommend a small internal jaw-type puller <or> slide hammer tool (either of which may
be available to borrow or rent from your FLAPS) or the DIY version as I’ve previously posted
around these parts (not my idea, just my pic):
Simple stove bolt, head filed to oval shape, put it in & pull the sucker out…cheap & effective.
The wire loops allow you to use a regular hammer as a puller/persuader…
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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BCE56 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2013 Posts: 358 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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AndyBees wrote: |
fxr wrote: |
I'm always confused why some people think lower rpms is 'better' or more efficient, or gives better mpg. OK, it CAN be, but not necessarily, and not that often in Real Life driving situations. |
I'm not seeking better MPGs... I'm satisfied with 32 to 34 MPG with daily driving and almost 26 MPGs pulling a popup camper.
Going with the 1.22 3rd gear is gearing down (shorter) than the 1.14. The intent is to be at about the same RPM in 3rd with the 1.22 and 4.13 R&P as with the 1.14 and the 4.57 R&P. I mulled over this decision for a long time. I will notice a difference pulling out in 1st. I see no concern for 2nd gear.
The busted gear in the above post is not uncommon in these high mileage transmissions. The OE bearing for 4th gear is in a plastic cage... that gear is high and dry compared to the others and it does run hot So, when the plastic gives up the ghost at 4000+ RPMs, well, don't be surprised in the carnage that results.
So, there you have it. |
*********
@ fxr- Please expand on this.
@ AndyBees- 4000+ input RPM leads to 4th gear failure?
Also: Congrats on 34 MPG. Diesel Vanagon is a whole different animal.
I was satisfied w/ 24 MPG at 65-70 MPH, +/- 3300 RPM.
I'm wondering now what effect the stock ratio 4th will have on gas mileage and temps at about 3700 RPM, 65-70 MPH _________________ =BCE56=
'86 Syncro tintop
EJ22, OBD II early SC adapter plate conversion
Side project: '69 Frankenbug "It's alive!" |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2312 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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Quote: |
@ AndyBees- 4000+ input RPM leads to 4th gear failure?
Also: Congrats on 34 MPG. Diesel Vanagon is a whole different animal.
I was satisfied w/ 24 MPG at 65-70 MPH, +/- 3300 RPM.
I'm wondering now what effect the stock ratio 4th will have on gas mileage and temps at about 3700 RPM, 65-70 MPH |
This is my theory: A transmission with well over 100k miles on it has been thru numerous heat cycles and lots of high revs. Remember, the 4th gear bearing is spinning regardless of which gear the transmission is in (it is an idler) except when 4th is engaged. And, all the bearings are a bit worn including the shaft journals although they may still be within spec.
Anyway, during high revs (above 3600), wobble, bounce, etc., can cause some nasty vibes to begin pounding the 4th gear bearing and others. All those heat cycles have caused that plastic cage to become extremely brittle. If the cage gives way, the carnage begins ......... take a look at the photos below. They are from an AHU TDI Westy with a Diesel Transmission which needs close to 4000 RPMs at 65 MPH. The dude drove this thing for miles on end in 3rd gear to get back home (somewhere in SD to Chicago) if I remember correctly.
I rebuilt this transmission last Spring for him using parts from a DK transmission that was badly decayed on the outside and new parts from Weddle. He's now in Seattle.
_________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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Zephyr_shreds Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2019 Posts: 185 Location: Bakersfield
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Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Official lazy person's stupid question thread |
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I put a borgwarner turbo on my 1.9 diesel. It’s a very tiny turbo. When I first put it on oil would come out the exhaust. So I put an oil restrictor on the feed line and that problem went away. Probly about another 10,000 miles down the road oil is coming out the exhaust again. A bunch of oil is in the intake plumbing too.. what do I do? |
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