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Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain
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weasel_ugs
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

Pajero wrote:
Not sure, but it looks like you need these...
https://www.amazon.com/Empi-3231-B-Rubber-Casting-Manifold/dp/B06XQR4J3V

Use this style , I hated trying to get those split boots to fit.
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Atomic Aerospace
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

I finally have the engine (temporarily) mounted! Didn't really need to get this done, but for some reason the visual progress is nice to have. The reality of the situation is it'll probably actually hinder me because i'll have to take it off again for the initial run Neutral

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I also got my starter, much thanks to the members who gave some advice for this on the Facebook group!

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I tried contacting CB Performance to see if they could look up the numbers and letters on my engine and tell me what it is. Unfortunately they told me they couldn't. There are a lot of engine fanatics on this website, perhaps there's someone who can tell me the any relevant information about this engine based on the picture?
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I took the valve covers off yesterday to get them powder coated. They turned out incredible! However, upon removing the valve covers, I noticed several push rod tubes have gaps in the seals. Think This is strange, considering everything else on the engine is immaculate and very well put together.
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I have been toying with the idea of adding an external oil filter. I think it would be easier to change and possibly help a tiny bit with some additional cooling. Right now the oil filter is located above the drain port in the oil sump.
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

Hi, nice project you have there. I notice one thing on your engine. In the one picture, I am not seeing the heat deflector under the cylinders. Is it there and I can’t see it?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

Yes he only has about 1/3 of a cooling system there. Lots of missing parts. I see there is no heat riser on that intake either, good luck with that!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

Atomic Aerospace wrote:


I tried contacting CB Performance to see if they could look up the numbers and letters on my engine and tell me what it is. Unfortunately they told me they couldn't. There are a lot of engine fanatics on this website, perhaps there's someone who can tell me the any relevant information about this engine based on the picture?
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My guess would be casting mold info for Autolinea
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

What you have above the "drain port", is just a strainer. Definitely consider adding a real oil filter. Either remote, or even a filter pump. I think what you are looking at on the picture of the case numbers, is just a CB branded case, made by Autolinea. You have Empi heads, so I wouldnt think it was a motor built by CB. I would think they would have used their own heads.
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Atomic Aerospace
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy: the heat deflectors are missing, they are not installed just yet.

oprn: the build is still ongoing, as you can see there are still many parts missing. Hear risers, heat shields, spark plug wiring, belt, accelerator cable, throttle guide tube, exhaust system, etc. It's still a work in progress. It will get all missing parts in due time (and money) Wink

joemama: When I drained the oil it appears to be an actual oil filter in there, it doesn't look like a the sump strainer. My old bug had the strainer, this one actually has a filter. But I think i'd prefer an oil pump filter. I've seen several different kinds available, but i've heard a lot of mixed reviews. It seems they're highly prone to leaks? I thought it would help cooling, changing the filter would be much easier, and it wouldn't have the cavitation risks often associated with sump filters.
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.
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joemama
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

I have a filter pump, and like it for its simplicity, and lack of hoses, clamps, fittings. Its been on there for going on 20 years.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

When I see and engine put together as far as yours is, I am a making presumption that you going forward on the build and not planning on taking it back a part.
The push rod seals are normal looking inside the head with spring loaded tubes.
Hopefully they are good seals. Silicone ones are the best to use.
If the engine is a 2110cc you may want to think about using the standback (doghouse) fan housing and cooler setup. It is a whole lot better then what you have in the pictures. With the fan housing you have and not having the stock cooler inside it, the air flow to 3,4 side of engine, it will run hotter on that side compared to 1,2 side because the cooler acts to direct the air flow were it needs to go.
You may want to go to a different oil pump, maybe something that has in and out ports to use external filter, and you may need to add a extra external oil cooler for the hot weather we’re you live.
I have used the chrome cylinder head tins you have and experienced higher temps with them. They to short on the sides to direct air flow. Stock cylinder head tin is longer on the sides and has the flange area to mount the rear directional tins and sled tins if needed.
I do wonder why you using a single carb instead of duals. Dual IDF or Dellortos are simple to setup and maintain. Jet Doctors for the IDF (Empi HPMX have them already installed) really help with keeping debris out of idle jets even with crappy air filter. If using K&N type fillters keep them oil otherwise if they are dry it like running no filter at all.
And yes I have a Manx Kick Out and use to have a Manxter Dual Sport, both I built from the ground up by myself along with many other buggies over the years. I live in the Sacramento Valley we’re it gets hot, though not as hot as were you are.
This was my Dual Sport
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This my. Kick Out
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Atomic Aerospace
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy: I did not realize that Dualsport was yours! I have several pictures of it from my visits to Mr. Meyers' shop, it's a beast! Very Happy And I love the orange metalflake on the Kick Out, very impressive builds on both! I appreciate your advice!

With regards to the engine, I actually traded my old non-running lobo dune buggy for this freshly built engine. I know there are a few things it needs, but for the most part I haven't really done anything to it.... yet. I thought about running dual carbs, but between the cost and the difficulty of managing two carbs, I thought I would put off that project for the time being. I can add them later.
The oil cooler (to my knowledge) is not inside the engine shroud. That's why it has those two ports on the rear of the shroud, as seen in one of the previous pictures. So I need to purchase an oil cooler. I know in the later style engines there is a different doghouse shroud assembly for the oil cooler to allow for better airflow over the cylinder heads. One reason I was asking about a remote oil cooler was because, if not remotely mounted, I will need to purchase a new doghouse shroud. I like your idea of having two oil coolers. Heat is the biggest enemy of these engines, and here in Phoenix, 110 degrees is considered a cool day Twisted Evil
I also want to add the oil pump filter, but I don't want the "fixed" style, which positions the oil filter right behind the cylinder heads. That'll just heat the oil even more. If I do the oil pump filter I need the kind with hoses, so I can route the oil filter away from the already hot engine.
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock on one of his engine is using the early fan shroud like your with a modified oil cooler. He cut the tubes and capped them but left grid plate in place to direct the air flow correctly inside the shroud. There a thread somewhere in the Performance Engine section with pictures of what he has done.
When I first put together the Dual Sport I was using a type 4 engine 2056cc in it for a few year before going Subaru. (Hard to beat the power and reliability of the Subaru). For oil cooling on it I use the stock oil cooler on it and external oil cooler mounted in the wing. It was a BugPack 72 plate cooler with fan mounted on it. Empi sells it now #9292. I also installed a inline thermostat to turn fan on. Setup worked well even in +110 degrees temp in the Nevada desert.
Yes a oil pump with in and out fittings would work for a remote filter and oil cooler in the wing.
As for the single carb setup engine will never run really smooth. The firing order of the VW engine that cylinder #4 fires before #3 and #2 fires before #1. With this the second cylinder to fire on each side runs a little leaner then the first.
With any dual single throat carbs do the same thing.
By using dual, dual throat carb each cylinder receives the same amount of fuel mixture for a smoother running engine.
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Atomic Aerospace
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

Stopped by my local VW shop today here in Phoenix. For all those in the Phoenix area, Competition Engineering is the place to go! They really take the time to listen and make recommendations based on what's best for you, not what they can sell! Very helpful bunch!

They set me straight with the correct doghouse. The engine came with a fan shroud, I think the idea was to make the oil cooler external?
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I don't know their reasoning. But the guys at Competition had the correct doghouse I needed and oil cooler. The only thing the doghouse needs is the accelerator cable guide tube, for some reason the doghouse did not come with that. Think
Since the engine is a 2110, and here in Phoenix we regularly "enjoy" ( Laughing ) +110 degree days Shocked he recommended I add an external oil filter and cooler. After browsing some of the forums, Dale posted a really helpful schematic of the layout. It seems many people had positive opinions of the external oil pump/cooler combo, especially in the warmer climates.

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Are there any good kits for this, or do most people just piecemeal it together? Do the pump gears need to be changed or just the cap housing? I'm thinking I could mount the external cooler and fan in the tail. The tail is meant for the radiator on the Subaru swaps, so I don't see why I couldn't fit an external oil cooler in there.
I still need to order the tins for under the heads, since the engine didn't come with them.
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

You might want to consider an oil cooler from a Mazda RX7 if you are going to mount it in a wing. It is long and narrow. I could get dimensions and a photo if you are interested. Depending on the airflow characteristics of the body on your car you my not need a fan. Experiance has taught me that extra oil cooling is not needed at low speeds and light loads so if the oil cooler is in a good airflow stream at speed it looks after itself.

Another idea might be to pipe the heating system outlets on your doghouse fan shroud up to the wing and let the cooling fan take care of the oil cooler air flow.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

For a tube through the doghouse fan housing you can make one out of a piece of 1/4 or 5/6ths diameter brake line. Just get a grommet for the fan housing that will fit both. A good Hardware Store like "Ace is the Place" should have a good selection of grommets.
Napa should have brake lines in different lengths and you would only need a one foot piece. They have the flares on them already and I just cut one to length and then use a washer on the carb side to keep it from pulling through the shroud. I use a Oil cooler grommet and a small clamp on the back side to hold it in place.
If you use the firewall tin just cut it long enough to poke through that and slip the flex throttle tube onto it.
I'm pretty sure I used 5/16ths tube but it will be dependent on what size fits well in the flex tube from the pan.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

A cleaner version of the setup that Dale suggests uses a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate. This is what I used on my Manxter, with an external oil cooler to supplement the doghouse cooler. The plate goes between your oil filter and the oil filter mount. Oil lines go in and out of it to your external cooler, and oil lines to and from your engine case go into the typical oil filter mount. When the oil is cool, the bypass valve is closed, and the oil returns to the engine case after filtering. If it is hot, the valve opens and oil flows to your external cooler. This allows the engine to warm up properly, and is much cleaner in terms of plumbing. Fewer fittings means fewer leaks.

I fit my oil cooler into one of my vented side pods on a custom made mount, it works really well. I have a thermostat switch for the fan plumbed in-line on the fitting exiting the oil cooler. Note that the Mocal plate and filter assembly are mounted on a Meyers Manx branded bracket that fastens to the exhaust studs but elevates the filter out of harm's way. I ran the hoses to and from the engine through some fiberglass heat shielding hose to ensure that there was no negative impact from the proximity to the header. The engine is a 2165 with Webber 44s and she runs cool in all conditions.

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/v/vspfiles/photos/Thermostatic-Sandwich-Adapter-4.jpg

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

It's been a while since I posted, life is so busy! Between work and school I haven't had time to work on the buggy. The next step in the build was a big task that I was procrastinating: taking it into the shop for evaluation. Once I was finished with the chassis, the plan was to take the frame into the local VW shop so Dan could go through it. I finally did it! With the help of a man and a trailer, we hauled the VW down to the local shop. Dan went through everything and fixed a few things here and there.
Once he finished the frame, all that was left to do was break in the engine. This is where poop hit the fan Sad He hooked the engine up to the test stand and ran it up. The engine had never been run before. Oil pressure was good, fuel flow good, dual carbs synced. The engine ran great for about 20 minutes, no issues. Then, suddenly, with a loud metallic CLUNK! The engine came to an abrupt stop. The engine seized d'oh! Brick wall Crying or Very sad
Upon tearing the engine apart, Dan found one piston had exploded and another had cracked. Further inspection revealed that whoever built the engine did not secure the piston knuckles. This caused one of the piston knuckle pins to slowly slip out, and eventually it caused the piston to explode. They had also installed the incorrect piston rings.

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Engine's Background:
I acquired the engine back in 2019 from a guy in Yuma (about 3 hours drive). The engine is supposedly a 2110. I had an old lobo dune buggy that was perpetually having mechanical/electrical problems. I did not have a garage, and was planning on purchasing a house an building my dream Manxter. With this in mind, I was looking to trade my dune buggy for this guy's engine. The engine was a brand new build, and the guy decided to work on a different project. He wanted my dune buggy, and I wanted his engine. So we made a trade.
I took the engine to my work, where it sat until now. I made a point of changing the oil every year, and kept it covered in a climate controlled storage. Unfortunately, the shop that built it went out of business early during the pandemic. "It is what it is" Brick wall d'oh!

The engine will need new pistons and arms, but luckily the block and main shaft are both okay. Not what I needed right before the holidays... In the words of the Tiger King: "I will never financially recover from this" Crying or Very sad
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

What? No video of the engine breakin and resultant explosion?

Man that sux! And you have no recourse to get it straightened out.

I got lucky with a recent engine breakin. After 19:43 the engine made a rattle sound deep down. I shut it down.
On tear down. I found that I had not properly torqued the #2 connecting rod. Embarassed
It came loose enough to rattle, but not break anything.
Retorqued it and put the engine back together.
I'm currently almost daily driving that engine. Very Happy

You wanna have Dan check the runout on the crank. That's a pretty violent engine break. It may have bent the crank.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

I am not sure what a piston knuckle is... looks to me like the big end of the rod failed. That is the big end isn't it? If it is I have never seen that failure cause a piston to break. In fact I have never seen a piston come out of an engine in that many pieces! Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Engine and Transmission/Drivetrain Reply with quote

I feel for your loss. And I understand it is a major setback.
What it looks like it has AA slipper skirt pistons and someone either forgot to install snap ring to hold wrist pin in piston or use Teflon buttons which do not work in slipper skirt pistons.
And using using what appears to be a stock VW connecting rod in a long stroke crankshaft is not ideal because it can over stress the rod causing failure.
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