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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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Sounds like you have confirmed continuity with the flap test when the key is on.
Is the spare AFM a rebuilt unit?, or used and removed from something else? If used it could have been on an engine with chronic vacuum problems that some "expurt" fixed by F'ng with the AFM adjustment. Now that it's on a (supposedly) non leaking engine it could be far too rich for it to stay running.
Here's a little test to see if it's in the ballpark: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=442112&highlight=afm _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Tejo23 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2022 Posts: 11 Location: Nederland
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Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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SGKent wrote: |
bad question on my part but did you plug the connector back in, is it possible you forgot it again?
If it were me, and one AFM worked fine, I would run with that one and put the other in the parts box for another day. There are a couple things that can go wrong with them, including the TS1 going out, the fuel pump points not making contact at idle, the copper where the center sweep attaches getting corroded and not making good contact, the body warping and bypassing air around the vane. Sometimes the rubber seal can come out of the plug and stick inside the connector on the AFM. If it came out of another bus and your connector plug has the rubber then there are two rubber seals on the connection and that can keep the connector from going on fully. I actually had that happen to me with a used AFM I bought once. I also had one that was unstable - I suspect the TS1 was bad in it. |
SGKent. Yes the other one works fine for now. I can put the other away for the other day but when that day happens I would like it to work! So that's why I'm testing it now without the pressure of a non-running bus.
I will try to test the TS1.
The connector has a good fit in my opinion. (And it was connected!)
Frank |
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Tejo23 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2022 Posts: 11 Location: Nederland
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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TS1 test is good. |
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Tejo23 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2022 Posts: 11 Location: Nederland
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Sounds like you have confirmed continuity with the flap test when the key is on.
Is the spare AFM a rebuilt unit?, or used and removed from something else? If used it could have been on an engine with chronic vacuum problems that some "expurt" fixed by F'ng with the AFM adjustment. Now that it's on a (supposedly) non leaking engine it could be far too rich for it to stay running.
Here's a little test to see if it's in the ballpark: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=442112&highlight=afm |
It isn't rebuilt AFM it's from another bus. I tested the weight needed to slightly open the flap. It just opened with 70/71 grams...
I will test it also on my original AFM and see the difference. In the thread in the link the good working AFM opens at 41 grams? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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Wow, that's set up really lean, could be part of your problem.
Does the lid look like it's been off? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Tejo23 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2022 Posts: 11 Location: Nederland
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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The lid has come off. It's loose.
There is a paint mark om the wheel:
That's painted by the previous owner I presume?
I'm thinking I will do the following:
1 test the load to open the flap of my original AFM (xx grams)
2 set the spring of the spare AFM so it will just open at the same amount of grams
3 test the spare in the bus.
Frank |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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Souds like a reasonable plan, it's clearly got problems as is. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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In the thread I created with the weight on a NOS never touched AFM, I had another one that was not behaving right. I put the weight exactly where it was on the NOS one and the other one tuned exactly right, and passed smog with near perfect numbers - not too lean, not too rich. Just a tiny bit lean. I suspect that the factory used a wind gauge to set those but the way I did it was the best I could do. I'd lower the pressure to open it and see if it behaves close to properly. You still may have to tweak it but it sounds like someone played with the wheel. There is also the slider. Has it been tampered with?
FWIW the only paint color I have seen used is yellow or white on those. Blue may be a rebuilder who played with it. Who knows. That said, I bought a rebuild one directly from the factory and had to take it back. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ev_vw_dreams Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2022 Posts: 27 Location: Oceanside, California
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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You've likely checked this but is the flap itself solid and closing right? Ran into a similar run and die issue on my cal bus with the AFM only to find out that one of my AFM's flap had a big hole in the center of it that was causing the issue. _________________ 1979 FI CA bus
First time VW'er |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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ev_vw_dreams wrote: |
You've likely checked this but is the flap itself solid and closing right? Ran into a similar run and die issue on my cal bus with the AFM only to find out that one of my AFM's flap had a big hole in the center of it that was causing the issue. |
some AFM had a hole in the center of the flap and a spring loaded valve. The idea was to let backfires open that valve/hole so not to break the AFM. Newer models have a chamber behind the flap that acts as a buffer in a backfire. The spring and valve probably caused more problems when they broke. Parts could end up ingested into the engine. So when they break one is left with a hole in the flap. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Nitramrebrab72 Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018 Posts: 485 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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How much end play do you have on the AFM flap shaft. ??? |
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Nitramrebrab72 Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018 Posts: 485 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Replaced AFM. Starts but stops again |
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airschooled wrote: |
Bad TS1 air temp sensors in the AFM will cause a no-run condition. Engine will briefly fire on the CSV fuel then die.
Robbie |
Short the 2 wires of the Temp Sensor and see if it was at fault. |
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