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Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration
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sgellis
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Location: SW Nova Scotia, Canada
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Some videos from yesterday.


Link


Link

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myklsmyth
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Good stuff! Applause
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Time to get back to this.

Managed to expose the frame straightener. Now just to get the wood off it. Any slightly horizontal surface becomes long term storage. Smile

The frame straightener will be the base for my frame jig. Fixtures will bolt to the main structure. Likely to have 9 sets of fixtures to hold the chassis in position while I rebuild it. Also has a lazer measuring system that attaches to the frame so will be easy to ensure everything is aligned correctly.

I need to make a decision on metal gauge. Measuring stuff I find most is 19 gauge but some of it is closer to 18 or 20. I can easily get 18 and 20 gauge here but 19 will be very expensive if I can even get it. One suppler claims they can get me a quote so I am going to see.

What do most do when 19 gauge is not available?

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djfordmanjack
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

we simply use 1mm metric sheets.... Wink with regards from a metric country (but isn't Canada as well?)
If you are talking about chassis repairs, I would not recommend using 20g which is only 0.9mm.
18 gauge is approx 1.2mm and should work well for outriggers and such.
I would definitely NOT use 18 gauge on body sheetmetal repairs, since it is a lot thicker than the original and will give you uneven heat distribution while welding and leaving you with a whole bag of problems, with hammer welding, distortion grinding smooth aso.
I think 20 gauge will work nicely on body parts repairs. JMHO.
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Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado

'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

djfordmanjack wrote:
we simply use 1mm metric sheets.... Wink with regards from a metric country (but isn't Canada as well?)
If you are talking about chassis repairs, I would not recommend using 20g which is only 0.9mm.
18 gauge is approx 1.2mm and should work well for outriggers and such.
I would definitely NOT use 18 gauge on body sheetmetal repairs, since it is a lot thicker than the original and will give you uneven heat distribution while welding and leaving you with a whole bag of problems, with hammer welding, distortion grinding smooth aso.
I think 20 gauge will work nicely on body parts repairs. JMHO.


We are officially metric but our neighbor doesn't like progress so we end up using both. Smile Our construction supplies are mostly imperial.

Just got my last quote back from a large Noth American steel supplier and they can't get 19g or 1mm. Going to assume shipping large sheets of steel from Europe or Asia will just be too expensive.

I was thinking 18 on structure and 20 on body. I will have the left upper wall from a panel that I can use for body repairs also. Actually I have quite a bit of OG panel around... Should have enough to repair all body panels. Little extra work stripping paint and such but will work fine. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. Smile
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Started on the frame jig.

Using 3" channel with 1/2" bolts to the frame and 1.5x1.5" uprights. Will place the body over the jig and align everything before welding the fixtures to ensure everything is perfect.

I will mount the rear torsion beam ends and front beam mounting points first and wait until body is off the floor to do the rest. The body is not supporting the frame in any way so no point to doing the rest now.

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The Nova Scotian Barndoor (YouTube)
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Only planed on moving things around the shop today but ended up with it half on the jig.

First problem I ran into is the frame straightener has a 0.25 twist over its length. That is 4mm difference in height side to side from one end to the other. About 2mm difference from rear torsion tube to the front beam. Not a big problem. I will keep the frame parallel with the bus on the right side and adjust for the twist on the left side.

Next issue is the rear torsion beam was not built symmetrical. The end plats are clocked 2. Left side has bolts 4 from vertical and right side has 2. Not an issue but threw me off when trying to get everything lined up.

Need to pick up a drill bit so I can get the front beam mount in. Once the front fixture is in place and I decide everything is correct the front and rear fixture will get a few braces to strengthen them. rest will not as they will just be for alinement.

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My 54 standard restoration
The Nova Scotian Barndoor (YouTube)
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myklsmyth
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Getting after it! Keep with the updates, big or small. It will help keep you motivated during the winter. Cool
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Bus is "on" the jig. 4 points correctish. I will wait until the frame is stripped to strengthen them and add the rest. Everything is so uneven that it is too much trouble to add them now. The bus was never even side to side. I expected it was jig built so frame would somewhat be correct but apparently the tolerances were not what I expected.

Next I will push up the nose and get all the door gaps good so I can record a bunch of dimensions for reassembly. May try to push some of the front roof dent out but not sure there is enough structure to push it.

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The Nova Scotian Barndoor (YouTube)
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Burlyhammer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Looking awesome!!! The frame jig looks solid! Im excited to see this bus go together. I may be in Nova Scotia soon. Maybe I can come see it in person. Excellent work as always!!!
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Burlyhammer wrote:
Looking awesome!!! The frame jig looks solid! Im excited to see this bus go together. I may be in Nova Scotia soon. Maybe I can come see it in person. Excellent work as always!!!


Thanks.

Yes come visit if you can. We are just outside of Yarmouth so a little out of the way. 3 hours drive from Halifax in good weather. One hour south of Digby if taking the ferry.
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My 54 standard restoration
The Nova Scotian Barndoor (YouTube)
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Got the door gaps good enough to get measurements of the body.

Set up the lazer. Been about 25 years since I used it. I will get a bunch of xyz coordinates of the body and make a drawing. Should be useful when I start assembly.

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joshbuchan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

hey man, i havent been on the samba for years.....cool bus! are you still looking for barndoor redux boxes? i have a complete trans drum to drum if you need?
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

joshbuchan wrote:
hey man, i havent been on the samba for years.....cool bus! are you still looking for barndoor redux boxes? i have a complete trans drum to drum if you need?


I may be Smile

Problem is I need to budget carefully to get this finished and shipping a complete trans and reduction across the country is a bit expensive these days. I only need the reductions. Actually only really need the reduction tubes as I may use 55-63 rear brakes to match the front.

I will pm you. thanks
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

Spent some time tonight getting the body straight and symmetrical. Getting closer but doesn't seem it was accurate to start with. Frame is very close and everything is level now. Top is almost there. Just need to get left and right to match a little better

Right side B pillar gaps seam large when matched with left side. Everything measures out though. The right door looks like it should be adjusted in at front so that will help.

Taking the time to get some good dimensions now that will make reassembling much easier.

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mandraks
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

maybe one of your doors is bent? they like to do that when you bump into things. that would make the door shorter and the gaps bigger.
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sgellis
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
maybe one of your doors is bent? they like to do that when you bump into things. that would make the door shorter and the gaps bigger.


The bottoms could be but the tops look correct. I am going to match things up to my 64 and see how close they are. It wasn't perfect but hell of a lot closer than this was.

Think the problem is I am trying to get things to the mm and this was never that. The bulkhead was welded on 3mm off center of the frames for example. Drip rail overhang is random, top of tool box is 1 out of level with front beam... So I am trying to figure out what position stuff should be on a body that was never exact.

I suppose this all wouldn't be a problem if I wasn't going at it with a laser alignment system. Smile

Anyway, I am going to keep messing with it and come up with a set of points that will be good to assemble to.
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djfordmanjack
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

I found some interesting information in a Transporter book that contains original build description sheets from VW.
It specifies the metal thickness used on '52/53 Barndoors.
main frame rails: 2mm
sorry, no information about outriggers or crossmembers

outer body panels 0.88mm ( so you will be nearly spot on with 20 gauge/0.9mm, even better than if you got 19gauge/1mm)

floors are 0.88 and 0.75mm ( possibly the thicker for cargo floors and the thin .75 for the rear upper shelf ?)

inner body structure and strengtheners: 0.75 and 0.63mm

Not sure about the peculiar metric dimensions, because it is a German book with direct metric VW works information. So the decimal numbers are the original metric specs, - not from transferring imperial gauges.

The original Barndoors were very light and flimsy in construction.

hope this helps !
G.


sgellis wrote:
djfordmanjack wrote:
we simply use 1mm metric sheets.... Wink with regards from a metric country (but isn't Canada as well?)
If you are talking about chassis repairs, I would not recommend using 20g which is only 0.9mm.
18 gauge is approx 1.2mm and should work well for outriggers and such.
I would definitely NOT use 18 gauge on body sheetmetal repairs, since it is a lot thicker than the original and will give you uneven heat distribution while welding and leaving you with a whole bag of problems, with hammer welding, distortion grinding smooth aso.
I think 20 gauge will work nicely on body parts repairs. JMHO.


We are officially metric but our neighbor doesn't like progress so we end up using both. Smile Our construction supplies are mostly imperial.

Just got my last quote back from a large Noth American steel supplier and they can't get 19g or 1mm. Going to assume shipping large sheets of steel from Europe or Asia will just be too expensive.

I was thinking 18 on structure and 20 on body. I will have the left upper wall from a panel that I can use for body repairs also. Actually I have quite a bit of OG panel around... Should have enough to repair all body panels. Little extra work stripping paint and such but will work fine. Don't know why I didn't think of that before. Smile

_________________
Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado

'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360, daily driver
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sgellis
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Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 1919
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

djfordmanjack wrote:
I found some interesting information in a Transporter book that contains original build description sheets from VW.
It specifies the metal thickness used on '52/53 Barndoors.
main frame rails: 2mm
sorry, no information about outriggers or crossmembers

outer body panels 0.88mm ( so you will be nearly spot on with 20 gauge/0.9mm, even better than if you got 19gauge/1mm)

floors are 0.88 and 0.75mm ( possibly the thicker for cargo floors and the thin .75 for the rear upper shelf ?)

inner body structure and strengtheners: 0.75 and 0.63mm

Not sure about the peculiar metric dimensions, because it is a German book with direct metric VW works information. So the decimal numbers are the original metric specs, - not from transferring imperial gauges.

The original Barndoors were very light and flimsy in construction.

hope this helps !
G.


Thanks!

That matches up close with what I measured. So 20 and 22ga for most stuff is correct. 14ga is close to 2mm for frame.
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My 54 standard restoration
The Nova Scotian Barndoor (YouTube)
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djfordmanjack
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Nova Scotian 54 standard restoration Reply with quote

you're welcome!
Looking forward to seeing some more progress on your bus !
_________________
Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado

'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360, daily driver
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