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411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM)
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whobba
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:13 am    Post subject: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

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^^^ WCM Late Bus Window Rubber Profile


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^^^ 411/412 Window Rubber Profile (50 year old rubber)

I'm working with WCM to get a 411/412 front windshield seal made. I measured the outer dimension of the windshield glass, provided that to WCM and they will cut and glue one to fit. Do you all think the profile is okay? I've read here on TS that late bus is the closest profile.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

I am using a bus gasket as my front windshield gasket.

It seals well. If one is really looking at it they can see that it's very rounded and fat on the outside compared to type 4 seals. Not a showstopper. Better than no seal at all.

But.....what they are suggesting .....cutting up one or two seals and gluing one together is the only way to go....and it still will not be absolutely perfect in the corners because the bus has wider corner radii. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Is this a bright work accepting seal? If it is I would be interested down the road sometime. Not sure what to tell you otherwise. I have never looked at a 412 rubber seal profile before.

Bill
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whobba
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Hi Ray and Bill,

WCM is making a seal from bus windshield rubber for me, based upon the windshield measurements I took from the replacement windshield, and this rubber does accept the "c" profile aluminum trim, I will re-use the trim pieces from the original rubber.

I'll follow up and let you know how it worked out. I hope it's a good fit and looks decent, if so - I will try the same trick with the rear window.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

The Type 3 original profiles (and the new ones from ISPwest) are larger than Bugs... maybe the same as the T4? Might two of those make up a decent seal with better corner profiles? Or is it not tall enough? Four seals, egads!
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Pepperbilly
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

whobba wrote:
Hi Ray and Bill,

WCM is making a seal from bus windshield rubber for me, based upon the windshield measurements I took from the replacement windshield, and this rubber does accept the "c" profile aluminum trim, I will re-use the trim pieces from the original rubber.

I'll follow up and let you know how it worked out. I hope it's a good fit and looks decent, if so - I will try the same trick with the rear window.

Yes, please keep us informed on how this works out. This will be interesting…

Bill
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Lars S
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Did I read somewhere that Golf/Rabbit MK1 had a wery similar front window seal as the 411/412? Not sure if my memory serves here...


/Lars S
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

At one point in time.....late 90s....I had the time and went on a quest to look at gasket cross sections of as many VWs as as could. I needed gaskets badly.

From distant memory.....the Mk-1 water cooled cars had a "shape" that was very similar to type 3 and 4 but was a bit skinny. If memory serves it was a bit skinny in more than one dimension.

I probably could have been made to work.....but interestingly.....Mk-1 gaskets and parts in 1999 to 2002-ish.....and pre-internet (early internet)....were not much easier to find in the US especially where ai was living at the time.

But.....it turns out that the late type 3 gaskets are very close in general shape and "GEOMETRY" to the type 4 gasket. But.....with one very important difference.

If you are looking at a type 3 and 4 gasket in cross section with the glass installed....from say....the perspective of looking to the left side of the car FROM the right side of the car.....so we can all picture this in our mind......mind..........the area of the seal 28th with the ribs......that is dead opposite the glass in its groove......that fits against the vertical part of the body channel ledge.........is shallower than Type 4.

To put it another way.....if you wanted to use type 3 gaskets on a type 4....and wanted them to fit tightly.....the type 4 glass would need to be about 0.200" to 0.250" (maybe a little less) larger all the way around with all else staying the same.

The outer top lip of the type 3 gasket is wide enough to overlap the joint.....but the gasket is too narrow in the dimension I am speaking of.

But.....I have always figured that if I got a roll of simple EPDM rubber strip....say.....0.25" thick and 0.375" wide....or maybe even 0.5" wide.....and glued that strip to the vertical part of the channel in the car all the way around.....it could make up the difference and allow the type 3 gasket to install correctly. I am pretty sure that would work. I have just not had the time to test it.

Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

It's fun piecing together these old 411/412 cars; I didn't realize how rare parts are - even parts that are so easily found for other AC VW's.

I really enjoy reading other's threads about their 411/412 restorations. We're all in the same boat with these rare, old Wolfsburg cars. I can't wait to get mine up and running and take it to local VW car shows. People either love them or hate them.

I used to hate them, and thought they weren't a "real" VW - man was I wrong! They are the last of the last rear engine air cooled cars to be designed out of Wolfsburg, hilarious that VW was aiming for a large luxury car when VW was known for bare bones, inexpensive cars at the time.

I kind of wish all wagons were 4-door and that all sedans were hatchbacks. Wonder if that would have made a difference back then?

I recently heard the joke " 411; 4-doors, 11-years late". Lol
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Following dot
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Anyone order a set yet ? And install . Curious on fitment
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Yeah, I ordered and installed on my '74 412, perfect fitment. Looks 99% exactly like the OG seal and fits great.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

whobba wrote:
Yeah, I ordered and installed on my '74 412, perfect fitment. Looks 99% exactly like the OG seal and fits great.


Sounds good! Please send us some photos.

Bill
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

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[/img]
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

whobba wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]


Cool Sweet!!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Very nice! A little wider than stock like a bus...but it fits flat, clean and unobtrusively. Great!

Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Yes, looks nice. Are you planning to install bright work trim? If so, what trim can be used? Does not look as if you could use the stock bright work.

Bill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

This is the late bug windshield rubber profile. I tried to install the aluminum trim, but it was a nightmare and kept popping out.

I needed to get the windshield in, since the old one had a giant hole in it and the car is stored outside for the winter, so i ditched the trim for these reasons. I'll try again in the spring. At least she's buttoned up for the wet season here in the PNW.

The profile is almost exactly like the original, so the old trim style should work. I also purchased some of the chromed plastic style trim to experiment with. The problem with my old trim is that it was curled closed too much, I think I'd need to uncurl it a bit to get it to fit into the channel correctly.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

whobba wrote:
This is the late bug windshield rubber profile. I tried to install the aluminum trim, but it was a nightmare and kept popping out.

I needed to get the windshield in, since the old one had a giant hole in it and the car is stored outside for the winter, so i ditched the trim for these reasons. I'll try again in the spring. At least she's buttoned up for the wet season here in the PNW.

The profile is almost exactly like the original, so the old trim style should work. I also purchased some of the chromed plastic style trim to experiment with. The problem with my old trim is that it was curled closed too much, I think I'd need to uncurl it a bit to get it to fit into the channel correctly.


From what I see here is that the original trim cannot be used? There is only 1 groove and the original would have 2 grooves for the trim (“C” type). So if I am correct the only trim that can be used would be the later style single fit chrome/plastic type. Maybe I am wrong…
Bill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: 411/412 Windshield Rubber Profile vs Late Bus (WCM) Reply with quote

Hold everything on my last comment!

I looked more closely at your photo and maybe I missed seeing a second groove in the rubber for an original type trim.

The photo is a bit blurry so that detail is hard to see.

Bill
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