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VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen
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Undis
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Having roughly established the main characteristics of the three cars I still have a problem. There are photos of a car that strongly resembles body 1 but some of the details have been changed.

colour: dark but was it black?
front end: two air grilles
semaphores: long, mounted low
windscreens: flat glass
window wipers: single one mounted above the left glass pane (not 100% sure however)
window trim: thick chromed metal on all windows including on door windows
rear end: body colour tail lights mounted low on sides of fenders, license plate lights – none?, license plate is slightly recessed into the body, two thin brezel reflectors either side of the plate, the reflector spot low on the left side seems to be covered?

Comment: it appears this car is body 1 after a facelift. The thick trim around the door windows is installed thus giving it the balance that was missing in the early photos. Semaphores have been changed as well as the location of tail lights.
Licence plate(s): IIIA-0703, IIIA-1688 used together with a permanent plate IIIA-43037 (which is odd).
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Undis
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

This may call into question what we know about body 1. Was it really destroyed in 1939? If it was finished in 19 August 1939 and destroyed the same year that would mean it happened within 4 months after it was finished. Why did it receive a facelift in such a short time span? I have not seen any documentation in regards to its destruction. We do however have photos of the other two cars involved in accidents. It seems clear that both cars (body 2 and body 3) were taken by Porsche to Austria as both have been photographed in Gmünd. In 1941 body 2 was involved in an accident. It was repaired but at the end of the war it was confiscated by American GI s and destroyed. Body 3 remained intact and later ended up with Mathé.

I think there is some confusion about body 1 and body 2 and the two accidents. Chris Barber says that car 1 (body 1) was given to Lafferentz and he crashed it soon after. However we have photos of body 2 after a crash involving Lafferentz, or was it Ley who crashed with Lafferentz driving the VW38/16? It is possible those two incidents are being mixed up?
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allsidius
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Very nice sum up, Undis.

I have a couple of comments.

First, I am pretty sure that all three cars initially had the double grille, mimicking the pretzel rear window of the regular beetle. Car no 2 received the long flat grille after the first damage, probably.

Second

The car chrashed with 38/16 has numbers IIA-0685. The car presented as the Mathe car has number plate IIIA-0687. Chris Barber states that this car, in shiny black paint on page 293 in Birth of the beetle, is car no 2 (38/42). Either they are not the same car, and Barber is mistaken on this detal, or they are the same car, which implies that the 0687 is actually the car that crashed with 38/16, when it carried the plate 0685.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Just bear in mind that the plates starting with 0 are not permanent, they were test plates that could be moved from car to car.
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Undis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

allsidius wrote:

First, I am pretty sure that all three cars initially had the double grille, mimicking the pretzel rear window of the regular beetle. Car no 2 received the long flat grille after the first damage, probably.


This is a highly probable theory. The split grille flows better with the middle ridge on the front of the car. Also from a design evolution point it makes no sense to have the second car being made with a different grille and then go back to the fist design for the third car. That of course would be logical if the sequence of those bodies has not been mixed up and the car that we refer to as body 2 is in fact body 3. I wonder how much we can rely on the information currently available? But when you say "the first damage" what do you mean? I'm only aware of one crash suffered by this car in the Alps.


allsidius wrote:

The car crashed with 38/16 has numbers IIA-0685. The car presented as the Mathe car has number plate IIIA-0687. Chris Barber states that this car, in shiny black paint on page 293 in Birth of the beetle, is car no 2 (38/42). Either they are not the same car, and Barber is mistaken on this detail, or they are the same car, which implies that the 0687 is actually the car that crashed with 38/16, when it carried the plate 0685.


Yes, this is part of the frustration about these 3 cars. It is possible that Chris Barber is wrong on this (he has mixed things up on several occasions and I can't blame him). By looking closely at the details I feel that cars with plates 0687 and 0701 are different cars. The trim on the door windows is different as well as the semaphores. Chris Barber also states on page 299 that the car seen in the column is car 2 however clearly sports the thick window trim seen on car 1.
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Undis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

IIIA-0426 wrote:
Just bear in mind that the plates starting with 0 are not permanent, they were test plates that could be moved from car to car.


That is an excellent point but also we know that the temporary plates "tend" to stay on a car unless there is a reason to remove them for a period of time when a car undergoes a rebuild, for example. That being said, I don't know why we have photos of seemingly the same car having plates 0687 and 0685 on it.
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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Otto Mathe from Austria owned his Porsche Typ 64 for more than 40 years.

Here is a little tribute to him with some old pictures from races and his shop.

He bought the Typ 64 directly from Ferry Porsche in Gmund 1949.

Mathe took part in several rallys in the early 1950´s with this car.

He also had three Porsche 356 Gmund, one of them very breifly.

Last picture is our recreation of the Mathe car, finished late last year and now 4000 kms on the clock.

Read more about it on my personal FB page or the new blog:

https://rekordwagen.blogspot.com/

Or on my FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/Jorgen.Andersson4

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finster
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

nice work! is that your replica in the last photo too?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

finster wrote:
nice work! is that your replica in the last photo too?


Yes, that is our recreation of the Mathe car.

Please take a look at the links, many more posts and pics there.

Here is another picture from this summer.

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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Some more pics of our tribute to the Otto Mathe Typ 64/60K10.

Here we are at Autoseum Oldtimer Regularity Race in August 2022.

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More info:
https://rekordwagen.blogspot.com/
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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Here is a pic from the Otto Mathe backyard many years ago..........


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https://rekordwagen.blogspot.com/
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Amazing. Check out those snow tires.
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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

These are the two spare tires I have in the Typ 64.


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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

We have now driven the Typ 64 for more than 4000 kms since it was finshed.
Still summer here according to the weather service.
Hopefully many more driving days ahead.
Have a nice weekend😉

-----------------------------------------------------------

VW60K10 - Porsche Typ 64 - Berlin-Rome Rekordwagen - 38/43 Otto Mathé recreation.
The Typ 64 is the ancestor of all rear engine Porsche 356 and 911.
Porsche employee Erwin Komenda also designed the Beetle and the Porsche 356/550.
Three Typ 64 was build 1939-40, one original car still exists.
We have built this Typ 64 recreation during many years and November 2021 it is finally ready to drive.

Facebook:
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Typ 64 Blog:
https://rekordwagen.blogspot.com/

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

is the number plate official or just for show purposes?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Otto Mathe in action with the Typ 64.


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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

From this summers Autoseum Oldtimer Regularity race with the Typ 64.

Blog:
https://rekordwagen.blogspot.com/


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Axel Andersson
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

In the pits at the same race.
Only cars up to 1939 was allowed.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

Here we have some winter pictures of the Typ 64 recreation.
Taken about a year ago.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: VW 60K10/Porsche type 64/Berlin-Rome Wagen Reply with quote

We wish everybody Happy Holidays and a great time with friends and family.😋

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all.😘

Just over 4000kms in the Typ 64 this year, hopefully many more next year.

Season Greetings from Sweden.🥰


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