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Slgbg Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2022 Posts: 3 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:04 pm Post subject: Beam rub |
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Hi, I recently picked up a ‘64 Baja bug and I’m working through the myriad of problems.. One of them being the front tires rub the beam really badly. I’ve been searching for info and can’t find a solution for my particular case, most of the info seems to be about lowered cars, drop spindles and narrow beams…
My beam is 39.5” wide, I don’t know anything else other than my steering rack is SACO.
Can anyone help with a solution here?
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Slgbg Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2022 Posts: 3 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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P.s I’m working my way through the rats nest you see there! |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1059 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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Wright and SACO used to have rack stops which were really just threaded sleeves welded to plates, which bolted to the bottom of the rack. You could adjust the screws to change how much the tie rod flag sticking out of the bottom could travel. _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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These are steering stops on a Latest Rage rack and pinion.
They are the socket head bolts(Allen head) at each end by the boots. You adjust bolts out so that they contact the center piece tie rod end attach to.
SACO steering stops bolted on using the bolt holding lower plate on rack.
If you can fabricate, they would be simple to make.
The angle the rack mount is welded to beam, you are probably getting a lot of toe change (bump steer). Rack mount should be were pinion (part were steering shaft attaches) is about 15 degrees pointing up. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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Slgbg Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2022 Posts: 3 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
These are steering stops on a Latest Rage rack and pinion.
They are the socket head bolts(Allen head) at each end by the boots. You adjust bolts out so that they contact the center piece tie rod end attach to.
SACO steering stops bolted on using the bolt holding lower plate on rack.
If you can fabricate, they would be simple to make.
The angle the rack mount is welded to beam, you are probably getting a lot of toe change (bump steer). Rack mount should be were pinion (part were steering shaft attaches) is about 15 degrees pointing up. |
So my rack is angled down about 20* and you’re saying it should be point up 15*?
Not sure I understand how to fab the stops for the Saco.. I think I’m probably handy enough with tools if I can understand where they need to go and what they’d look like. Oddly enough I can’t find any examples on the internet |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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Ok I finally able to get back to you.
Here a few pictures of the stops on a rack & pinion. These are welded on were the SACO rack stops are bolted on using the lower plate mounting bolts.
Having these you can adjust them to keep tires from rubbing on chassis.
For angle of rack mount this is on a Chenowth chassis that has frame work above steering shaft that only aiiowed to mount at 12 degrees instead of the 15 degrees I mount other racks at.
_________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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I give Joseph's info 2 Thumbs UP! _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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66 Shorty Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 916 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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Would you guys say the "Latest Rage" rack is a good alternative to finding a SACO, now that they've closed down shop & no longer making them???
I'm still in the middle (slow process) of building mine, I have a widened Thing beam with a Thing steering box on mine & have been wanting to change it to an EPS Rack instead...
What are your thoughts on that? |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1059 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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Recently made SACO racks weren't that good, mainly finish and fit issues. I have one that was not so great, and several vendors would agree this was the case.
I would say most comparable to the older SACO racks that were "made with love" are the new Kartek racks.
https://www.kartek.com/parts/kartek-offroad-151-ra...beams.html _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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66 Shorty Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 916 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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jimmyhoffa wrote: |
Recently made SACO racks weren't that good, mainly finish and fit issues. I have one that was not so great, and several vendors would agree this was the case.
I would say most comparable to the older SACO racks that were "made with love" are the new Kartek racks.
https://www.kartek.com/parts/kartek-offroad-151-ra...beams.html |
Yeah, I read the same thing about the last SACO racks being made... I was looking at the Kartek Rack, but, the price is up there!!! That's why I was wondering about the cheaper latest rage racks... |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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The Latest Rage is a 1 to 1 ratio and a very cheap copy of the original Wright Place rack and pinion. I am using it on a sand buggy.
If you plan on using on using your vehicle for street or off road abuse, I would not use the Latest Rage rack and pinion.
Find a good SACO or buy the KarTek rack and pinion as it will last a lot longer. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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66 Shorty Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 916 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
The Latest Rage is a 1 to 1 ratio and a very cheap copy of the original Wright Place rack and pinion. I am using it on a sand buggy.
If you plan on using on using your vehicle for street or off road abuse, I would not use the Latest Rage rack and pinion.
Find a good SACO or buy the KarTek rack and pinion as it will last a lot longer. |
That's what I was expecting to hear... I wanted a 1.5:1 ratio anyway, so, I have NO Choice but to NOT cheap out with that LR unit! Looks like the KarTek is my only real option at this point!
Thanks for the replies guys!!! |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1059 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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In the summer I drive my buggy with a 1.5 rack on the street, and as a guy who probably has 10,000 street and off-road miles on a 1.5 rack, I certainly wouldn't want a 1:1. I think that's sand car stuff. 1.5 isn't what I would call "twitchy" but it's sure close. _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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66 Shorty Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 916 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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I just picked up a Kartek rack for my buggy... now I'm going to go to the junk yard tomorrow and look for an EPS that I can adapt to it...
I'm not sure what the best set up is but I've seen that people get them from a prius or corrola... not sure what else I should be looking for. Any info would be great! |
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 595 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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jimmyhoffa wrote: |
In the summer I drive my buggy with a 1.5 rack on the street, and as a guy who probably has 10,000 street and off-road miles on a 1.5 rack, I certainly wouldn't want a 1:1. I think that's sand car stuff. 1.5 isn't what I would call "twitchy" but it's sure close. |
Mine's a 1:1, never had an issue with it tbfh, even at 3 figure speeds. |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1059 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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Phillip now that I look at your car picture, I notice your front tires are notably smaller than mine, based on how you use the car. I bet that's a variable worth tossing into the mix too, since I'm doing more rock-clambering and the like than you. I think the leverage over my larger tires is not something I could sacrifice any more of when a tire is jammed between rocks or I'm sliding backwards down a hill. I could see being convinced on 1:1 in more of a rally-type usage and tire choice setting.
66 Shorty wrote: |
I'm not sure what the best set up is but I've seen that people get them from a prius or corrola... not sure what else I should be looking for. Any info would be great! |
The two I've seen are the 2014 Kia Soul...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRNOmAqsVLg
....and the Saturn Vue one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6tgqnbAx3U
I know the Prius is popular too I just don't know anything about that. I'd imagine the one with the most durable guts is the one to go with. _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 595 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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I have power steering so that's not really an issue even when there's rocks or stream beds.
I wouldn't say it's twitchy though, even at speed, that's as much a geometery thing as the rack itself I'd say. |
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jimmyhoffa Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 1059 Location: St. Louis
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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PhillipM wrote: |
I wouldn't say it's twitchy though, even at speed, that's as much a geometery thing as the rack itself I'd say. |
Do you happen to know your beam and/or kingpin caster angle at normal ride height? _________________ 1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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PhillipM Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2010 Posts: 595 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Beam rub |
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About 7-8 degrees. |
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