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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26790 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Quote: |
As i look more closely at that damn center main bearing,
It takes a smidge more than 25 ft. lbs. to close up -all- of the light between center main saddles. |
I think you are confusing some things. Making sure the case halves come together is done WITHOUT the bearing in it.
If the case halves come together with a steel center bearing.....you have not enough crush, and it will probably not work.
The steel shell bearing is .002 thicker in the center than at the ends, it is that way because it is supposed to hold the case haves apart .004 at room temp. If the ID of the bearing is measuring BIGGER in the side to side direction you can sand the parting surfaces of the bearing until the ID is round, but that's it, do not go farther.
If you are using the KS aluminum center main bearing then the situation may be different. If unsure check with magnet, but I can tell them apart real easy because steel is much heavier. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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modok wrote: |
If the case halves come together with a steel center bearing.....you have not enough crush, and it will probably not work.
The steel shell bearing is that way because it is supposed to hold the case haves apart .004 at room temp.
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Much thanks for your help my man.
I apparently have this thing way wrong.
This is indeed a steel backed (Silverline) center main.
My understanding is that there should not be a gap between the case halves, with the center main in place and the six main case bolts tight.
Since the oil groove is on the OD of these bearings,
How do you keep from losing oil pressure out of the gap between the case halves?
You're saying you need a .004 gap between the case halves with the bolts tight?
How do you measure this gap? Stick a feeler blade in there?
Went thru this with a friend lately.
His KS center mains didn't hold the case halves apart when the main studs were tight.
This is totally blowing my little mind here.
You're saying all steel backed center mains are designed to work this way?
I thought it was just crappy manufacture! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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modok wrote: |
The steel shell bearing is .002 thicker in the center than at the ends, it is that way because it is supposed to hold the case haves apart .004 at room temp. |
Where's that "mind blowing" gif when you need it?
Is the idea that the gap between the case halves closes up when the case gets up to temp?
The mag case material grows, and the main bore opens up,
But the steel bearing doesn't.
Then the case bolts clamp down and close the gap at the parting line,
Keeping the bearing crushed in place despite the differences in metallurgy/expansion?
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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The reason the non-steel-backed KS bearings fit without a gap is because they expand at a similar rate to the case?
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26790 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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BINGO, you got it. |
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nogoodwithusernames Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014 Posts: 599 Location: CA, USA
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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I know, right?
Keep thinking of the oil outside the bearing spraying everywhere through the gap between the case halves… _________________ Bus Motor Build
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nogoodwithusernames Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014 Posts: 599 Location: CA, USA
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26790 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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.004x.3 gap......less than one lifter. Drip or perhaps a slow dribble.
But it is weird. I would not think it would even work, If I didn't already know it works. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Well, until i can rip it clear back down to a bare case and order some more bearings…
Figured it was a good use of an entire day to get the head studs and cylinder shims worked out.
Crazy what they did with those shims..!
They were only notched for 8mm studs, so just crammed on.
Plus some slipped and smashed down anyways, so chewed and burred.
Not to mention two .055”, one .065”, one .070”..
Took hours of clearancing and hammering and sanding to get them to fit.
All just to get a good mock-up and order some decent shims.
I’ll have some different shims on-hand for future mock-ups i guess.
Ordered shims for either 8:1 or 8.2:1 CR. Not sure how well I’ll do at tuning.
Also ran the studs clear home for length trimming.
Once there, they got blue lock-tite’ed into the inserts.
Also decided enough was enough struggling with the two top center studs.
Now that the studs are where they go,
If i can get the crank turning smoothly,
We can glue this thing together.
Until then,
The blue glue is drying,
And i can make vroom noises!
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9772 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Hah!
Weare at point.
Vroom noises!
_________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Couple days off - driving around looking at colleges!
Did some cleanup while waiting on shims and an unmonkeyed set of main bearings to arrive.
Threw some stuff in the trash!!
Drug the tin out of the attic for a checkout and mockup.
Tin is all China, Brazil alternator seems OK, and we got a welded fan here.
Oh,
But wait.
The fan nut is a bit loose..
Can't catch a break on this POS..
Was thinking how the alternator had a cool dark tint to it,
But getting it apart,
er,
That's just grime.
It's the same as any other alternator, it's just that dirty.
Nice washer on the hold-down strap, eh?
Good way to cut a plug wire, or your hand, or..
Pretty amazing how ALL of a motor can be shitty, eh?
You would think that some random parts-slapper-together clown would get it right at least occasionally.
Like, a coin can't land on tails every time, right?
Guess when someone does shitty work, they do shitty work;
They don't become a different person sometimes...
Tiger at A1 sure does nice work.
This header fits a treat!
Too bad some dumbass got ahold of it.
Here's why there's a hole in the pipe.
Dumbass extended the wastegate flange wrong.
Same dumbass probably welded the T4 flange onto the T3 header here.
Notice no clearance/thought so bolts fit all crooked/caddy-wompus.
Might have to shave down bolt heads?
Started doing some Cardboard Aided Design.
Turbo seems so heavy to hang from just exhaust tubing.
Even though it survived like that before... Or did it..?
Bus bar hanger bolts seem good for this...
Can't be flat, though; gonna have to put some cant into it.
Also thinking about O2 sensor locations.
After the turbo on my dump pipe seems primed to get a bunch of fresh air contamination/lean readings.
But before the turbo is a no-no right?
What you guys think?
Should i build that hanger bracket?
Where to put an O2 sensor bung?
Anyways,
Got my last batch of junk together to get tanked.
Gotta be glad for any success we can get! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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O2 sensor goes after turbo
That Dump pipe on the turbo drain, goes on the Waste Gate _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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VWporscheGT3 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006 Posts: 2076 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Dude I turn away from the Samba for what feels like a week (in reality two) come back from PRI and suddenly we have a long block. lol awesome read , great progress bro! _________________ Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
suddenly we have a long mock! |
FIFY.
It is close now though.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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VWporscheGT3 Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2006 Posts: 2076 Location: Gardnerville, NV
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Clatter wrote: |
VWporscheGT3 wrote: |
suddenly we have a long mock! |
FIFY.
It is close now though.. |
thanks for the correction lol _________________ Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Unfuckerizing the exhaust...
Got wastegate setup so it won't bang itself a big hole in the pipe anymore.
T4 flange was a bit narrow.
Not enough meat to open clear up to size,
But at least i got a bunch of big blobby weld out of the way.
Checking out this other site,
I thought,
"Hey, i have one JUST like that!"
https://ace-engines.com/product/aircooled-vw-2387cc-turbo-engine/
Looks like they are OK with an O2 sensor in the base of a short dump pipe.
But what is the bung in the collector flange there for?
EGT?
CE heads have few fins just like my SE.
Maybe with the right tune they can live on the street after all. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Janne71 Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2015 Posts: 127 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Hi
Did you get case tight together or did you have the play between?
Better with new bearings ?
//Jan
[ quote="Clatter"]Well, until i can rip it clear back down to a bare case and order some more bearings…
Figured it was a good use of an entire day to get the head studs and cylinder shims worked out.
Crazy what they did with those shims..!
They were only notched for 8mm studs, so just crammed on.
Plus some slipped and smashed down anyways, so chewed and burred.
Not to mention two .055”, one .065”, one .070”..
Took hours of clearancing and hammering and sanding to get them to fit.
All just to get a good mock-up and order some decent shims.
I’ll have some different shims on-hand for future mock-ups i guess.
Ordered shims for either 8:1 or 8.2:1 CR. Not sure how well I’ll do at tuning.
Also ran the studs clear home for length trimming.
Once there, they got blue lock-tite’ed into the inserts.
Also decided enough was enough struggling with the two top center studs.
Now that the studs are where they go,
If i can get the crank turning smoothly,
We can glue this thing together.
Until then,
The blue glue is drying,
And i can make vroom noises!
[/quote] |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9772 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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Quote: |
Looks like they are OK with an O2 sensor in the base of a short dump pipe.
But what is the bung in the collector flange there for?
EGT?
Think |
That collector bung, looks like a standard collector bung for a N/A engine.
Most likely something that Tigar has on a shelf and uses on most of his headers.
My dump pipe has two O2 sensor bungs welded in it. One close the turbo housing.
And the other about 4" further way. In a straight section of the dump pipe.
Before anyone comments on the waste gate setup. It's not anywhere correct. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Meet the Bergmann Bomb! |
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I dout the xpurts could see it _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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