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volkaholic1 Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2004 Posts: 794 Location: ohio
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:45 pm Post subject: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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i am looking for autostick "expert" for a national magazine article. i have done the basic research on what it is, basics on how it works, how many made, etc
looking for input on
when buying, what to watch for
when owning, what to watch for
when driving, what to watch for, how best to enjoy
funny or interesting real stories are always great to! _________________ Volkaholic |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1603 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Tom K. wrote: |
Our resident experts include:
sb001
volkenstein
Heimlich
Johnrich55
Hopefully they will each show up to this thread soon with info. Or you can send personal messages through Samba.
I would keep checking this thread for info as various people weigh in.
Basic conclusion: autosticks are great! |
Humility will get you nowhere on here!!
Volkaholic, our other expert is Tom K!! He's the one who put an entire thread up discussing tearing apart and refurbishing an autostick tranny!!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight= _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1603 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Ok. I'll start.
When buying: factor in that the autostick reduces market value by about 10% relative to a standard of similar age and condition. You might hear that autostick parts are difficult to find, which is simply not true. Yes, the big parts dealers don't carry too many autostick parts, but true VW hobbyists know that finding used original VW parts is far superior to the after market stuff. And the samba classifieds are full of such parts. In fact, there is an ad on Samba now where someone is giving away their autostick stuff for free after converting their autostick to a manual. Such finds are not uncommon. Keep in mind that most of the autostick tech is solid state and generally indestructible. The necessary consumables are widely available. That said, I would recommend stocking up on a few parts for the future such as an extra control valve solenoid, a clutch disc, a few tranny sump plate gaskets, and maybe a front tranny mount.
When driving: some people miss the action of a stick shift. That's understandable. Common mistakes include resting your hand on the shifter - a big no-no because that slightest hand pressure activates the clutch. So you need to find something else to do with your right hand. Second, if you park in gear, then the autostick will not start. A WTF moment until you realize that you need to put the car in neutral to get ignition. Third, fitting an autostick with a cheap 009 distributor is worse than fitting that same distributor on a manual. You will experience sluggish acceleration. So do your best to use a dizzy designed for the autostick to sustain pep when driving. The autostick is also nice in traffic jams as you can let the torque convertor inch you along.
When owning: autostick tech allows for many folks with knee problems to still enjoy driving these old vws. New teenagers too. The autostick is a nice addition to anyone's VW fleet. _________________ '91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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volkenstein Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2005 Posts: 858 Location: The Land of Oz
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Tom,
I'd add carby checking. A brosol 30/31 Pict is a second retrograde step behind the 009 fitment.
Regards
Volkenstein _________________ 71 RHD AS Super - "Klaus"...
Wisdom of youth, energy of old age... |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:39 am Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Things I have figured out about owning an autostick over the years (and to reiterate some of what has been said above):
1. Many VW fanatics for myriad of reasons seem to hate the autostick (as Tom mentioned, it will not command as much because of its perception.) Here is an article I came across that doesn't exactly sing its praises:
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-...fer-kafer/
"But unlike most of VW’s major mechanical changes, the automatic stickshift wasn’t bulletproof. It could be very reliable…if it was properly maintained. And therein lies the problem: It wasn’t a “set-it-and-forget-it” system. While it didn’t tarnish the VW rep big-time, it didn’t live up to the standards set by previous transmissions, nor was it as forgiving of poor maintenance–and it certainly didn’t enhance the performance of the slug-bug."
Over the years I personally have become convinced that it is simply more misunderstood than anything else- especially when you have decades of VW "mechanics" shops that never bothered to learn how to diagnose one that is having trouble and therefore just told everyone to swap it. VW marketing ploys, such as these ads:
Probably didn't sit too well with certain people either. Oh well, at least it's not this:
It's not that complicated to understand how one works. There are a few essential components:
1. Autostick shifter:
There are two electrical contacts (upper and lower) in the base of an autostick shifter. The bottom contact is connected to a wire that runs to the back of the car, through the floor pan, across a "neutral safety switch" mounted on the transmission, and then to a control valve solenoid in the engine bay.
Whenever the shifter is moved in a longitudinal fashion (i.e. putting it in a gear) those contacts touch each other, grounding the circuit and sending an electrical signal back to the control valve, activating the solenoid.
2. Control valve:
The control valve is a cylindrical contraption mounted to the left side of the engine bay. It has a largish hose connected to it that supplies vacuum from a port on an autostick intake manifold, as well as a smaller hose from a port on the rear of an autostick-modified carburetor that supplies an additional smaller vacuum signal for adjusting the speed at which the valve opens and closes (adjusted by a screw on the top of the control valve body.)
In the "closed" (i.e. inactive) position, the control valve allows intake manifold vacuum through another hose to a vacuum tank mounted underneath the left rear fender. When the solenoid is activated (i.e. shifting gears), the internal valve moves to a position to allow vacuum through yet another hose to a servo that operates the clutch.
3. Clutch servo:
The clutch servo is a sealed canister with an internal rubber diaphragm, that has a short adjustable "arm" connected to it. This arm in turn is connected via a pivoting pin to another arm coming out of the transmission that operates the clutch. Whenever the control valve in the engine bay is activated and vacuum flows through to the clutch servo, the diaphragm inside the servo pulls the clutch arm which operates the release bearing and decouples the clutch allowing the transmission to be shifted.
It sounds crazy, but all of this happens within a fraction of a second!!
Additional features:
Torque converter: The autostick is sort of a hybrid of a conventional manual transmission with a torque converter added to it. In fact, the autostick's three forward gears (Low, Drive 1, and Drive 2) are the exact same gear ratios as 2nd, 3rd, and 4th is the 4 speed. Instead of a flywheel, autostick engines use a "drive plate" that the torque converter bolts to, just like a conventional automatic transmission. The torque converter (obviously) is a fluid coupling between engine and transmission drive shaft that allows the autsotick to remain in gear while stopped, as well as taking over the responsibility of a "1st gear" that a manual would have when accelerating from a stop.
ATF tank and hybrid oil/ ATF pump: There is a an ATF tank mounted under the right rear fender of an autostick, with a filler neck that protrudes up through the right side of the engine bay. The tank is connected via hose and metal piping to a dual-chamber oil/ ATF pump connected to the camshaft of the engine. The front chamber pumps engine oil as a normal oil pump would, while the rear chamber pumps ATF fluid from the ATF tank up through another set of pipes and hoses to the torque converter housing inside the autostick transmission's bell housing.
I guess typing this out now, I can see why some VW mechanics would rather avoid the autostick since there are several components to it. BUT, I will say (in stark disagreement to the article I linked above) that my car's original autostick lasted 40 YEARS before the clutch wore down to the point where it would not stay in gear. That the clutch of an autostick should last that long alone should have people rethinking its merits instead of unfairly maligning it. Yes there are several more components that can go wrong but it has been my experience that probably 90% of the time or more, these are vacuum-related components such as the clutch servo or the vacuum hoses themselves that wear out, NOT anything in the transmission itself, and are easily replaceable. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6593 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Tom K. wrote: |
When buying: factor in that the autostick reduces market value by about 10% relative to a standard of similar age and condition. |
I hear this is not true anymore. Autosticks now carry a premium because they are so rare. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12846 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:09 am Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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heimlich wrote: |
Tom K. wrote: |
When buying: factor in that the autostick reduces market value by about 10% relative to a standard of similar age and condition. |
I hear this is not true anymore. Autosticks now carry a premium because they are so rare. |
That’s what every autostick owner wants you to believe.
I’m pretty sure that damn near all of the autostick “experts” have long since retired or died off. Someone dabbling on one in the interest of keeping theirs alive is hardly an “expert”. I’ve specialized in VW & Audi for 35+ years & have only had to fuck with an autostick five or six times & the only thing that was truly difficult about them was finding the parts. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6593 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:13 am Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
That’s what every autostick owner wants you to believe.
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Every single autostick to manual conversion makes mine just a bit more valuable.
Parts are hard to find. I have a NOS torque converter in the VW box. I had a NOS oil pump but someone bought it. One day I will need an oil pump and think about that transaction. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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heimlich wrote: |
Tom K. wrote: |
When buying: factor in that the autostick reduces market value by about 10% relative to a standard of similar age and condition. |
I hear this is not true anymore. Autosticks now carry a premium because they are so rare. |
Unfortunately, this is not true.
TDCTDI wrote: |
That’s what every autostick owner wants you to believe |
Fortunately, neither is this. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:11 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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heimlich wrote: |
Tom K. wrote: |
When buying: factor in that the autostick reduces market value by about 10% relative to a standard of similar age and condition. |
I hear this is not true anymore. Autosticks now carry a premium because they are so rare. |
Rare doesn't mean valuable. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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volkaholic1 Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2004 Posts: 794 Location: ohio
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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yes, although it does seem like an autostick would be worth more due to the relative scarcity, however, too many folks dis the autostick, and too many rip it out and put in a normal transmission. good to mention in an article about autostick, so it will come up.
but in an attempt to stay on topic,,,,
what do you LIKE about autostick? _________________ Volkaholic |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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volkaholic1 wrote: |
what do you LIKE about autostick? |
Anyone can drive it... it takes no skill. But then it's not a full automatic. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1603 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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To the OP, the history behind the autostick tech is pretty cool too. Fichtel and Sachs invented it in the early 50s. Mercedes, I think, initially outbid VW for the tech and for about 10 years it only appeared on Mercedes cars (not sure what models). Then when Mercedes was ready to move along to fully automatic transmissions in the mid 1960s, VW remained interested and finally secured permission to use the Fichtel and Sachs tech. Those of your readers interested in quirky auto tech will surely enjoy learning about it. As an autostick owner, I love having this tech on board, and it has been pure joy to learn how to optimize it's performance using patience and basic hand tools.
It might be worth contacting VWOA. VW had built a long tradition of training it's dealers on how to maintain their cars. Maybe this practice fell away a little in the late 1960s for the autostick? Because it certainly appears that many seasoned VW mechanics lack basic diagnostic knowledge. Maybe VW has something to add about this possibility? _________________ '91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6593 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Tom K. wrote: |
To the OP, the history behind the autostick tech is pretty cool too. Fichtel and Sachs invented it in the early 50s. Mercedes, I think, initially outbid VW for the tech and for about 10 years it only appeared on Mercedes cars (not sure what models). Then when Mercedes was ready to move along to fully automatic transmissions in the mid 1960s, VW remained interested and finally secured permission to use the Fichtel and Sachs tech. Those of your readers interested in quirky auto tech will surely enjoy learning about it. As an autostick owner, I love having this tech on board, and it has been pure joy to learn how to optimize it's performance using patience and basic hand tools.
It might be worth contacting VWOA. VW had built a long tradition of training it's dealers on how to maintain their cars. Maybe this practice fell away a little in the late 1960s for the autostick? Because it certainly appears that many seasoned VW mechanics lack basic diagnostic knowledge. Maybe VW has something to add about this possibility? |
Saxomat is what you are looking for here. I think they are what came before the autostick. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6593 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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sb001 wrote: |
heimlich wrote: |
Tom K. wrote: |
When buying: factor in that the autostick reduces market value by about 10% relative to a standard of similar age and condition. |
I hear this is not true anymore. Autosticks now carry a premium because they are so rare. |
Unfortunately, this is not true.
TDCTDI wrote: |
That’s what every autostick owner wants you to believe |
Fortunately, neither is this. |
I think I am on board with you all. We can keep the price down by saying it isn't worth anything. I bought my autostick not running and shifting for $1500. The guy started at 3500 or so and gradually dropped it over a period of months and months. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6593 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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Glenn wrote: |
volkaholic1 wrote: |
what do you LIKE about autostick? |
Anyone can drive it... it takes no skill. But then it's not a full automatic. |
That's what makes them valuable. The people that don't want to drive a stick or don't know how to. It does take a little skill. You gotta know when to shift. The autostick takes care of pressing in the clutch for you. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76897 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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heimlich wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
volkaholic1 wrote: |
what do you LIKE about autostick? |
Anyone can drive it... it takes no skill. But then it's not a full automatic. |
That's what makes them valuable. The people that don't want to drive a stick or don't know how to. It does take a little skill. You gotta know when to shift. The autostick takes care of pressing in the clutch for you. |
Last week, I helped a friend's daughter learn how to drive her dad's 74 Super Autostick, original 28,000 miles. She said the car rolls when she puts it in Park. I had to show he that you need to push down and then over to get in Park.
A stick is not hard, I taught my son how to drive one on my Beetle with a Stage 1 pressure plate and a dual friction sold disc. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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baldessariclan Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 1375 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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A car’s value / selling price is largely determined by the law of “supply and demand”. I think that the autostick Beetles are a bit interesting in this regard, because while the supply of these is fairly low & rare (especially in good shape and working order), the overall demand for & interest in them seems to be significantly lower than average as well.
I mean, don’t get me wrong — there are definitely true autostick enthusiasts & aficionados out there. And also folks who really want to drive a Beetle, but don’t want, and/or physically can’t manage, a manual transmission car. But these seem to be somewhat in the minority overall, at least as based on expressed opinions, historical car sales, transmission swaps, and etc.
So my guess would be that autostick Beetles generally end up selling in about the same price range, on average, as manual transmission Beetles (in similar shape and working order) usually go for. I.e. since there is a far greater supply of these manual Beetles, but also a higher overall rate of demand for them as well.
Once again, it’s an interesting case of rare cars with lower demand on one hand, vs. common cars with higher demand on the other... _________________ 1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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vwfreek61 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 350 Location: Green Bay, WI
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: looking for autostick "expert" for magazine article |
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heimlich wrote: |
Tom K. wrote: |
To the OP, the history behind the autostick tech is pretty cool too. Fichtel and Sachs invented it in the early 50s. Mercedes, I think, initially outbid VW for the tech and for about 10 years it only appeared on Mercedes cars (not sure what models). Then when Mercedes was ready to move along to fully automatic transmissions in the mid 1960s, VW remained interested and finally secured permission to use the Fichtel and Sachs tech. Those of your readers interested in quirky auto tech will surely enjoy learning about it. As an autostick owner, I love having this tech on board, and it has been pure joy to learn how to optimize it's performance using patience and basic hand tools.
It might be worth contacting VWOA. VW had built a long tradition of training it's dealers on how to maintain their cars. Maybe this practice fell away a little in the late 1960s for the autostick? Because it certainly appears that many seasoned VW mechanics lack basic diagnostic knowledge. Maybe VW has something to add about this possibility? |
Saxomat is what you are looking for here. I think they are what came before the autostick. |
Yes, Saxomat. I have a '64 that I converted to Saxomat. Since the system is similiar to an autostick, I was able to substitute some of the parts I couldn't get with autostick parts.
_________________ Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT |
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