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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:25 am Post subject: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I am doing some much needed rust repair on the van. I have a question for you folks with pristine original sheet metal and paint on your van.
Here is what I started with (only into the right / pass side just yet):
So some cutting, clean up and rust neutralizer on any remaining surface rust, and then some zinc weld through primer on the flanges.
Which brings me to the lower rear area of the front wheel well area.
I had to remove the front fender, outer dog leg, and also remove some rusted metal in the lower wheel well / inner fender area. I'm making up some replacement metal for the lower inner fender area here and my question is, where the outer dog leg / rocker meet and fold around the inner fender or wheel well. Should this lower area be seam sealed and sealed up?
It seems like water can run down to this area from the windshield drain holes and then where would it go?
Am I missing drain holes? I mean I can also see the you don't want that little opening to allow road spray in there either. I just wondered if any of you samba-ites could post up some pics of your van in that are to show how the factory did it down there.
It seemed like the outer fender and dog leg were all glued up to the inner fender the whole way around. So where does that water drain out of?
Your efforts are much appreciated! _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1110 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:46 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Classic T4 rust is what you've got. Fortunately the replacement doglegs and rockers are decent quality. it's too bad they come in a 2 piece arrangement and not a one piece. Crappy design with the front windshield trough draining all leaf litter into the inner fender section. I've pulled 10L pail of stuff out of T4s from there in the past. No joke. Once or twice a year blasting that area with a pressure washer is a good investment for moist climates. |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:08 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Yeah it seems pretty common, not nearly as bad as some I have seen on youtube. I have the replacement metal trimmed up and ready to go back in, pretty much.
My wife bumped a safety pole at the gas station many years ago and that broke the outer paint surface enough to initiate the rocker rust. It really rusted from the inside out, creeping along under the paint. The lower dogleg was hastened by the VW mudflap, I feel. And the upper dogleg / fender rust was surely due to the ever developing compost pile inside the fender. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1110 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:43 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Where did you source your arches and rocker panels?
Make sure to liberally clean them and top coat the back sides with quality primer and paint. |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:41 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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They are Klockerholm, but they are not horrible. I sourced them from Raybuck auto body parts in PGH PA (fairly local to me). The rocker is much better than the dog leg for sure. I also got the lower sliding door outer skin, to use for the lower B pillar repairs. I will post some pics of the panels. I have had to modify / add/ subtract to get what I need.
I am no pro here for sure, but my plan is this: remove the mfg primer on the replacement metal, and on inner parts that get closed in, paint weld thru primer in areas that get welded, and then epoxy primer and paint the inner portions away from the welds. Then in the end after all paint etc some good cavity wax with a 360° pray wand. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1110 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:53 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Internally spraying is a good idea. Removal of the cheap primer is also a good idea. |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I guess looking at it today, once the outer dogleg is welded on that entire area behind the outer dogleg is sealed off to the outside world so no moisture can get it there. All water from the winshield drainage should go down and forward on the inner fender. So that rear bottom corner where the outer dogleg leg arch and rocker panel and inner fender meet up should all be sealed up with seam sealer. I will get some photos up to explain. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:38 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I got some time to put on the Eurovan this weekend. I focused on the front passenger fender. Where it meets the passenger door. It has some rot in that area due to the mud / leaves/ etc that collect there.
Here is the worst spot from the outside:
And from the inside:
And an another area is sort of rotted up front near the bumper area:
For for the rear area I cut out what seemed bad and hand made up a replacement piece. A little trial and error with some pliers and hammer. Then just grind here and there to get a good fit and weld it in there.
I didn't get any photos in between, but ended up with this.
And from the back - OK penetration:
I then slogged on some rust-mort and will be hitting that area near the front bumper. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1110 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:00 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Nicely done. I'm a fan of epoxies especially in cases like this. Some of the more runny viscosity variations work best here. Brush/spread them on and they'll creep into seams, fissures and pits and seal them up. |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:35 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I am going to stop down at the auto body store and see what epoxy primer I can get that would be compatible for going over rust mort. They carry all of the SEM products (at least they used to be). _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I have finally made some headway on the passenger side. I got all of the metal work finished up over there. I had a bit of a learning curve on the new welder (going from flux core to gas). That threw me for a loop. But with some practicing and failing and learning, I am finally getting the hang of the infinite settings finally.
Here is it all in it's glory.
Here is the B pillar area. I made that little B pillar section with some metal I had from the panel to repair the an area on the slider door and some leftover OG rocker panel. I also had to extend the replacement dog leg up the B pillar a little bit.
And here is a view of the rocker panel.
And a look at the dog leg area and how I spliced that together.
And finally a look at the rear area of the wheel well / inner dog leg that needed replaced. I made that panel up.
_________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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So since the passenger side was finished up (finally), I wasted no time digging into the driver side. I thought that this side was not as bad, (and I explained that to my wife, also!). However, that proved to be wrong. I knew the lower dog leg was wasted from the mud flap area. But I had not realized how far the rust was travelling under the factory rubberized sealer. In some areas the rubber coating was all that remained.
The rear front driver side wheel well / step area:
That front step area was mostly gone. It looked pretty good from the inside before poking around. I ended up taking the whole panel out for replacement. Some small repairs are needed for what remains also.
It is interesting that this driver side only has an inner rocker panel and an outer rocker panel (and filled with factory foam in the middle). The passenger side has an inner, middle, and outer panel (and no foam). Maybe due to the big slider door opening on that side? The middle and inner rocker panel on the pass. side were pristine compared to the inner rocker on this driver side.
I took the bad part of the dog leg off. This revealed the rocker panel full of dirt. The inner rocker area in the jack point vicinity is thin and will need repaired. I think that I will have to remove some more of the rocker panel, back to the the rubber plug area on the inner rocker panel.
I am not sure how far up the dog leg I am going to go with replacement. There is some rust up near where it meets the fender. I suppose that I will do something similar to what I did on the passenger side.
Here is a look down the rocker panel after some cleaning. See the foam down there!
It sure doesn't look too good right now, but man it sure feels good to be cutting out rusted metal and getting this all addressed. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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1994Karuso Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2018 Posts: 156 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Love it. More photos please. I have a feeling this will be in my future eventually. |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:28 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I had some time to put towards the van. I got into repairing the inner rocker in the jack point area on the driver side.
Here is the before shot
I ended up cutting the rocker back a bit further to expose the spot welds and to gain access to all of the inner rocker rust. I then cut out the spot welds and a couple of straight cuts on the inner rocker and it was free.
I am glad that I am doing this as the jack point structure was also full of mud (dust and rust at this point). This whole area, the waxy cavity coating is all dried up, I assume soaked up by the dirt and mud that made it's way in here from the failed dogleg. But I cleaned that jack structure all out and put a coating of rust mort in there. I will check it out today to see what it looks like. I may end up more applications. I am not sure if I should paint KBS rust seal in there, or just cavity wax? Opinions are appreciated!
Here is a shot inside after a fresh coating on rust mort.
And here is the rusty pattern to be used to make up a replacement panel.
I am going to try to get onto making the panel in the evenings this week. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I messed around a bit forming that gusset on a new piece of metal. First, I hit a block of wood I had in the garage with a rat tail file to get a "die" to form against. It matches close enough. I just figure that I will get it close, I am not looking for perfection.
I then grabbed some scrap metal, and put a 90° form on the one side and did some hammering. This is some audi metal, the same thickness as the cut out piece. Forming the largest part of the gusset, closest to the 90° bend is a tough spot.
I could not get the large end formed down all of the way to match the wooden die.
So I tried just forming the gusset on an open end. I found that I could get the shape into the metal.
I called it a night there. But I think that if I get a big enough piece of metal, form that first 90° form in there, then just slice the metal right where the gusset will be - at the 90° form, then that will allow me to form the gusset, and then I can come back and weld that slice up and it will be fine. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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CdnVWJunkie Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 1110 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2023 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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A lot of fancy tools available these days. Most coach built cars of yesteryear were built by hand and without fancy tools. Keep up the good work. |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:07 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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I went ahead with attempting to make up the inner rocker repair piece with the the gusset. I cut a large enough piece with extra all around, then put the first 90° bend in and just sliced where the gusset would meet it. Then screwed it down to my wood block and did some hammering. I got it into shape pretty good, and then welded the slit back up and ground everything down (where it would need to be - otherwise it will be all covered up on the inside).
Then, moving on, I knew there was going to be more small repairs needed to some rusted areas around the step still on the van. I thought that I could work around this area and leave it attached, but it seemed to make more sense to cut this out of the way and repair it off line, while having better access to make repairs to the front part of the step.
You can see the lip that needs replaced on this piece. (the front area of the step cut off is also sitting there)
The remaining area on the front of the step needs some love also. So a couple of cuts and that is freed up. I believe that the entire step and inner rocker are originally one piece. But I am patching it up as two pieces welded together.
At this point I think that all of the rusted metal that I am addressing in this area is off, and I need to fit the inner rocker patch, and make some more little patch panels, and then start putting it all back together.
I have all of this cardboard and tape here to shield the gas tank area from any stray grinding sparks. Once I am ready to start welding, I am going to have to move the van outside (on a non windy moment) and do the welding. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:47 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Here is a little update on the little bit I have gotten done recently.
I got the outer part of the step that I had decided to cut out, repaired.
I cut out and formed up the patch for the front of the step
I got the inner rocker patch 80% trimmed up, but still need to figure out where to trim and form that leading edge once the other patches get welded back in.
And finally, some metal for the inner dogleg / inner fender (trimming and forming to come).
I want to pull the van outside to weld this stuff, and the weather has not been on my side as well as it has been too windy when I have the time. But
the stars will align here sometime. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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IdeaNerd Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2016 Posts: 598 Location: Central California
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Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:53 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Really enjoying your posts on this, @soissisc. Please keep them coming! |
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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 11:28 am Post subject: Re: 99 Eurovan rust repair question |
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Hey Ideanerd and CdnVWJunkie - I appreciate the interest. I will keep plugging away and sharing, I can't wait to get my van back on the road! _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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