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Type V rods in a Type I
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:37 pm    Post subject: Type V rods in a Type I Reply with quote

Is it possible to use wasser rods on a type I build? They use the same rod bearings but unsure on length or bushing size. Reason I ask is I overheard a couple of kids talking about a baja build and one said his machinist was building his engine with vanagon rods since they were stronger than stock bug stuff. He also was told he was using vanagon sized pistons, figuring regular 94mm type I stuff. Ive heard about using vanagon 76mm cranks in a type I too so wondering if that is the only way it will work?


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modok
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

WBX rods are same length as type-1, the difference is the 24mm piston pin.
From what I recall, would have to dig some out and check to confirm 100%
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Vanapplebomb
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

He is probably talking about watercolor Vanagon rods, not Type 4. Type 4 rods would take a quite a bit of work to modify for use in a type 1, but not impossible. It would also be a little weird to build a type 1 with them because they are shorter than type 1 rods. The rod ratio for striker cranks would get a little weird unless longer aftermarket rods were used… no idea why you would do that when there are so many beefy aftermarket rods for type 1 engines on the market.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

WBX rods are no stronger. They have 24mm pins instead of 22.

A WBX crank in a T1 would require main saddle machining to the Type 4 diameter, and possibly some other oiling mods. It's better to just use a WBX or modded Oxyboxer. Idk why more people don't just use the WBX. It's a watercooled T1 that uses a lot of T1 parts.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

I looked into different case options years back when the first 'case crisis' hit and liked the idea of the type 4 bearing mod on the type I case as you could use what would be considered a worn out case and use the stronger type 4 bearing. I thought there was a BMW adapter bearing option but the old memory aint what it used to be.

I was working on an oxyboxer build and had a good core to work with. Planned on domed 4 in bore with the non CW 76mm crank for low revving bus build. Ended up selling it for twice what I had in it when I needed some cash for the move. Cores up here are slim pickings and at a premium when you do find them.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

AlteWagen wrote:
I looked into different case options years back when the first 'case crisis' hit and liked the idea of the type 4 bearing mod on the type I case as you could use what would be considered a worn out case and use the stronger type 4 bearing. I thought there was a BMW adapter bearing option but the old memory aint what it used to be.

I was working on an oxyboxer build and had a good core to work with. Planned on domed 4 in bore with the non CW 76mm crank for low revving bus build. Ended up selling it for twice what I had in it when I needed some cash for the move. Cores up here are slim pickings and at a premium when you do find them.


The BMW bearing would be from the 530 BMW.
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

Berg sells adapter brgs.
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nextgen
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Type IV rods in a Type I Reply with quote

Funny, this is the type of stories I have been hearing for years. Bottom line obviously, it is confirmation, that the T-4 is a stronger better engine especially for a Baja. Sure if they have a T-1 engine and want to make it stronger and reliable. But it most likely is going to cost what it would have costed to stick a T-4 in.

Plus the fact after upgrading the T-1, the Case will not be as strong as the T-4 case. Years before I got into T-4s FAT Performance was known for their T-4 Conversions for Baja bugs.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Type V rods in a Type I Reply with quote

WBX being 24 pins vs. 22 pins for a Beetle motor i don't see an advantage.

One upgrade to a type 4 is to get rods with a 22 pin vs. 24.
Lighter reciprocating weight, plus a better (and cheaper) selection of pistons.

If the waterboxers do indeed run 24 pins,
It makes way more sense to run Beetle rods.

Waterboxer pistons have huge dishes and an odd pin height IIRC.
Maybe if you were doing some kind of odd low CR turbo or something?
Not sure there would be any use for those with aircooled heads..

There's an Oxyboxer forum on the old STF if you really wanted to learn.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Type V rods in a Type I Reply with quote

Its the first time hearing about using late rods in a build which is why I asked. I happened to overhear these kids talking about their project while I was waiting in line to pick up the engine I won at a farm auction. I say kids but they must have been in their 20s. I kind of felt bad as the only info the one guy had was what his machine guy told him. Seems he started with a stock 1600 with a bad case and got a deal on a bubble top which is why he was keeping it Type I.

I wish I would have counted how many times he said 'bus' in describing the build. Bus trans, bus axles, bus CVs, bus clutch, etc. I bet the machinist just told him he was going to use 'bus' sized stuff like crank, rods and pistons as the kid thinks the parts are indestructible.

If I didnt have the kids with me I would have talked to them more to find out WTF he was being told. Misinformation like this really makes me want to get my aircooled polytechnic training school up and running. I think newbs to the community are really getting screwed at every turn where a little bit of help could make the project more pleasurable instead of a fight
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Dan Ruddock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Type V rods in a Type I Reply with quote

AlteWagen wrote:
Its the first time hearing about using late rods in a build which is why I asked. I happened to overhear these kids talking about their project while I was waiting in line to pick up the engine I won at a farm auction. I say kids but they must have been in their 20s. I kind of felt bad as the only info the one guy had was what his machine guy told him. Seems he started with a stock 1600 with a bad case and got a deal on a bubble top which is why he was keeping it Type I.

I wish I would have counted how many times he said 'bus' in describing the build. Bus trans, bus axles, bus CVs, bus clutch, etc. I bet the machinist just told him he was going to use 'bus' sized stuff like crank, rods and pistons as the kid thinks the parts are indestructible.

If I didnt have the kids with me I would have talked to them more to find out WTF he was being told. Misinformation like this really makes me want to get my aircooled polytechnic training school up and running. I think newbs to the community are really getting screwed at every turn where a little bit of help could make the project more pleasurable instead of a fight


A little common sense goes a long way.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Type V rods in a Type I Reply with quote

Dan Ruddock wrote:
A little common sense goes a long way.


That is easy for us to say while growing up it seemed everyone had a bug or someone on the block to go and learn from. My neighbor growing up raced VWs so I got to watch the whole process from the age of 6-10. Actually got my first bug from his family and got a lot of good advice on what to do/not do for a reliable bug.

While the internet makes it WAY easier to find info, out here in broadband desert a lot of folks still rely on the 'experts' in the area. Unfortunately these same experts are selling their wares to unsuspecting, trusting owners who have little idea what is happening.
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