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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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 Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:31 pm Post subject: To Notch the lifters / Hoover mod. or not? |
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I am lining my ducks in a row and doing all my preliminary work.
This brings me to the lifters.
I have seen many videos of people doing things like Hoover mods., notching lifters, etc.
The main parts houses like CB, Scat, CIP1, and on and on do not sell them this way.
So if the design isnt broke why fix it?
Does it really benefit the lubrication?
Last edited by Bug53 on Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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Yes, do ur research 
_________________
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Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| madmike wrote: |
| Yes, do ur research |
I researched it to death.
I believe it will add to lubrication but I can't help wondering why the major manufacturers aren't doing it and cashing in? |
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| madmike wrote: |
| Yes, do ur research |
I researched it to death along with the Hoover mod.Most suggested not to bother with the Hoover mod. but do the lifters
I believe it will add to lubrication but I can't help wondering why the major manufacturers aren't doing it and cashing in? |
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madmike
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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Major Manufuctors copy "Stock" 
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7533
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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If you own the drill bit and a cutoff wheel the mods are free to do.
There’s nothing to sell.
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3553
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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Berg sells their lifters with this option
take your time and do it |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5960
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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Some of the tool steel lifters sold have a wide oil channel, which serves the same purpose. If you have stock lifters you can modify them. If you are bushing the case, then you can add the groove to the case side. I think which you choose depends on what you're starting with, and what your comfort level is.
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7533
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| esde wrote: |
| Some of the tool steel lifters sold have a wide oil channel, which serves the same purpose. |
An excellent point.
Most aftermarket lifters are Scats and they have wider grooves.
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| Clatter wrote: |
| esde wrote: |
| Some of the tool steel lifters sold have a wide oil channel, which serves the same purpose. |
An excellent point.
Most aftermarket lifters are Scats and they have wider grooves. |
I have brand new CB lightweights.
I have all the tools etc.
No problem doing it. |
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| Clatter wrote: |
If you own the drill bit and a cutoff wheel the mods are free to do.
There’s nothing to sell. |
Drill bit? |
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3553
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| For Hoover mod…connecting rear cam bearing oil port to lifter port on 1-2 side of case |
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| txoval wrote: |
| For Hoover mod…connecting rear cam bearing oil port to lifter port on 1-2 side of case |
I have heard from many on here (the samba) not to bother with the hoover cam bearing mod. |
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allamaabroad
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2016
Posts: 560
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:56 am Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| Bug53 wrote: |
| txoval wrote: |
| For Hoover mod…connecting rear cam bearing oil port to lifter port on 1-2 side of case |
I have heard from many on here (the samba) not to bother with the hoover cam bearing mod. |
I'd say if you're not going to do the hoover mods to the case, there's probably not much benefit to grooving the lifters.
I've done full Hoover mods to a couple of cases now, my understanding is that grooving the lifters is mostly to support the increased oil flow from the oiling mods done to the case
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3553
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:05 am Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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If you review the oil pathways in the case this mod makes perfect sense and evens the flow between each side of the engine and provides more oil to the 1/2 head/rockers.
Will your engine work without…of course, but why not make it better.
Make this mod and slotting the lifters will provide full time oiling thru the pushrods to rockers to heads. If someone can explain why this is a bad thing I’d be shocked.
Also, these two mods are simple to complete and take very little time |
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| Clatter wrote: |
| esde wrote: |
| Some of the tool steel lifters sold have a wide oil channel, which serves the same purpose. |
Most aftermarket lifters are Scats and they have wider grooves. |
I initially had a set of new Scat lifters sent out when I bought the case from them. One of VWDarrin's You Tube offerings had a portion where he showed the inconsistency of the newer Scat lifters which are not blister packed but packaged bulk in a bag. The section between the oil slots on some were so thin they would have offered almost no support to the lifter bore in that area. I realize there probably aren't excessive forces at work here but sent them back because the inconsistency overall was exactly as he alerted me to. I have an EP12 cam so going to CB lightweights was my choice. The CB's are all exactly the same and have a wider center section which I wanted to see. |
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2022 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters or not? |
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| txoval wrote: |
| For Hoover mod…connecting rear cam bearing oil port to lifter port on 1-2 side of case |
The way I am seeing this Hoover Mod. after studying the case halves and oil passages I can see benefit in porting out the center cam bearing posts on both halves of the case for getting extra oil to let's call it the "low pressure" side of the case and balancing it out a bit with benefit up the 1 & 2 cylinder pushrods.
The part that seems to be not worth the risk ( of course there is risk) in drilling under the rear cam bearing post on the right side of the case the only benefit is more oil to that side of the cam bearing and that being the only benefit. The only thing it connects is the No.2 exhaust lifter bore with the bearing post and maybe on the extreme adding extra oil dumped off of that bearing onto the cam gear and slinging it around.
Correct me if I'm not seeing something here. I am very interested in this. |
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Howard 111
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Virginia
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txoval
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3553
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:20 am Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters / Hoover mod. or not? |
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By completing the drill mod you’re creating a second path of oil to the lifters > pushrods > head.
More available volume so that when you slot the lifters you get the additional oil to the heads.
Porting the oil slots in the cam bearing saddles is the one I don’t do. With the second path it’s unnecessary and if you do it, both sides of the case need to align…meaning port both equally. Good luck with that. On a clearanced case there’s not much meat left on the saddle to do so. |
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Bug53
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2021
Posts: 704
Location: Pawcatuck, CT.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: Re: To Notch the lifters / Hoover mod. or not? |
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I do see the saddle is reduced on the clearanced case.
Maybe I’ll just radius the top ends of the supply holes. |
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