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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:23 am Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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I get your frustration.....but spell it out...please.
What EXACTLY is it about AutoBahn and VWoA....that in your opinion is NOT legit VW parts?
I follow parts and parts companies as closely or more closely than most people here. I have for decades. I work with several large parts manufacturing entities so I have to.
VWoA ....IS...VW. It is the equivalent of VW of Brazil and VW of Australia.
Yes....they are separate legal ENTITIES...because in most cases they have to be. They are fully controlled and MOSTLY owned by the VW group.
As I noted a couple of posts ago this is common because of laws in the countries regarding import taxes. Here is an example of that from Wiki that spawned VW do Brazil in the 1950's
VWoA is ACTUALLY....OFFICIALLY.... NAMED Volkswagen Group of America inc. and the common term "Volkswagen of America" is the common but not official shortening of that name. A moniker. It IS the VW group.
The EXACT reason why VW Group of America (VWoA as it is called here) was started in 1955 is primarily because it was the dealer network entity (that is in wiki and numerous other locations)....it was about creating a seperate entity (seperate from production) that provides service, parts and sales. It was a secondary subsidiary to VW manufacturing....up until 1978 when the Westmorland plant started....manufacturing.... making rabbits (defective poor quality rabbits...but rabbits nonetheless).
As for Autobahn...again...a fully owned company of the Volkswagen group. Started by them and always has been.
Why? Probably because its an umbrella company with a huge range of manufacturers under it.
However the parts that are sold under the Autobahn name....have NEVER been manufactured by VW even before Autobahn. These types of parts always came from vendor/manufacturers under contract to VW.
VW did not EVER manufacture antennas, seat covers, accessories (common types of Autobahn branded parts).....or for that matter...ball joints, tie rod ends, brake parts, bearings, shocks, struts, clutches, valves and valve springs, pistons......none of this was EVER manufactured by VW.
Autobahn from everything I could find over the years....is actually a group of those OEM companies that are under majority control of the VW group. Hence they can brand name them to what they want to call them instead of having other manufacturers names on them.
VW from a 2019 press release is 51 subsidiaries with 122 plants in 153 countries with 660,000+ employees. Are they all FULLY owned by VW group? Probably not fully....but majority owned.
Through the 80's and 90's...anything but hard mechanical parts from the dealer were Autobahn. They were overall legit parts.
Does this mean that they are the HIGHEST quality of that part available? No...and it has always been that way.
Example I have a never used Autobahn antenna assembly in the bag for type 3/4 cars. It is first rate. Does this mean its as good in detail as a Hirschmann antenna?
No....but those were never offered as OEM on my car anyway so what I have in Autobahn is identical to what came on it.
So what is it you are exactly trying to say about VWoA and Autobahn?
Ray |
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sodbuster
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Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:36 am Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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I get your frustration.....but spell it out...please.
What EXACTLY is it about AutoBahn and VWoA....that in your opinion is NOT legit VW parts?
I follow parts and parts companies as closely or more closely than most people here. I have for decades. I work with several large parts manufacturing entities so I have to.
VWoA ....IS...VW. It is the equivalent of VW of Brazil and VW of Australia.
Yes....they are separate legal ENTITIES...because in most cases they have to be. They are fully controlled and MOSTLY owned by the VW group.
As I noted a couple of posts ago this is common because of laws in the countries regarding import taxes. Here is an example of that from Wiki that spawned VW do Brazil in the 1950's
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
VWoA is ACTUALLY....OFFICIALLY.... NAMED Volkswagen Group of America inc. and the common term "Volkswagen of America" is the common but not official shortening of that name. A moniker. It IS the VW group.
The EXACT reason why VW Group of America (VWoA as it is called here) was started in 1955 is primarily because it was the dealer network entity (that is in wiki and numerous other locations)....it was about creating a seperate entity (seperate from production) that provides service, parts and sales. It was a secondary subsidiary to VW manufacturing....up until 1978 when the Westmorland plant started....manufacturing.... making rabbits (defective poor quality rabbits...but rabbits nonetheless).
As for Autobahn...again...a fully owned company of the Volkswagen group. Started by them and always has been.
Why? Probably because its an umbrella company with a huge range of manufacturers under it.
However the parts that are sold under the Autobahn name....have NEVER been manufactured by VW even before Autobahn. These types of parts always came from vendor/manufacturers under contract to VW.
VW did not EVER manufacture antennas, seat covers, accessories (common types of Autobahn branded parts).....or for that matter...ball joints, tie rod ends, brake parts, bearings, shocks, struts, clutches, valves and valve springs, pistons......none of this was EVER manufactured by VW.
Autobahn from everything I could find over the years....is actually a group of those OEM companies that are under majority control of the VW group. Hence they can brand name them to what they want to call them instead of having other manufacturers names on them.
VW from a 2019 press release is 51 subsidiaries with 122 plants in 153 countries with 660,000+ employees. Are they all FULLY owned by VW group? Probably not fully....but majority owned.
Through the 80's and 90's...anything but hard mechanical parts from the dealer were Autobahn. They were overall legit parts.
Does this mean that they are the HIGHEST quality of that part available? No...and it has always been that way.
Example I have a never used Autobahn antenna assembly in the bag for type 3/4 cars. It is first rate. Does this mean its as good in detail as a Hirschmann antenna?
No....but those were never offered as OEM on my car anyway so what I have in Autobahn is identical to what came on it.
So what is it you are exactly trying to say about VWoA and Autobahn?
Ray |
I'll add that when I worked at VW dealerships in the late 80's and early 90's I installed a lot of parts that came from the back parts room counter in "Autobahn" boxes. Dealer parts installed on customers cars. Clear enough?
My last words on the subject.
We can explain it to you. But we can't understand it for you.
Last edited by sodbuster on Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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Ray - I posted a FTC suit against VW showing that the company VWGOA uses the DBA's of VWOA, and Audi of America.
Part of the issue is this is 2022 and some of the products questioned are from the 1970's. Lots of companies spin off subsidiaries for some reason or another. Company structures change. American example, Autolite supplied parts to Chrysler, Studebaker and Packard in the 1930's. In 1961 Ford bought their name and several of their assets. In 1972 SCOTUS ruled that Ford broke anti-trust laws doing this, so Autolite was sold to Bendix. Today I think Honeywell owns the name. When SCOTUS ruled on Autolite and they sold it, Ford replaced the name with Motorcraft. When you go into a Ford dealership you can buy a genuine Ford part, or the Motorcraft version. Often when one opens the box, the same part is inside the box but not always.
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
I get your frustration.....but spell it out...please.
What EXACTLY is it about AutoBahn and VWoA....that in your opinion is NOT legit VW parts?
Ray |
I simply never said that!
The rest of the excessive discussions and citations are... yada yada yada. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
I get your frustration.....but spell it out...please.
What EXACTLY is it about AutoBahn and VWoA....that in your opinion is NOT legit VW parts?
Ray |
I simply never said that!
The rest of the excessive discussions and citations are... yada yada yada. |
Don't know what yada yada yada means but we just ate our first piece of toast with homemade guava preserves from this year, and I'll trade another piece of toast with it for whatever yada yada yada means. Sort of sounds like a former coworker's 16 year old saying to him, "talk to the hand."
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
I get your frustration.....but spell it out...please.
What EXACTLY is it about AutoBahn and VWoA....that in your opinion is NOT legit VW parts?
Ray |
I simply never said that!
The rest of the excessive discussions and citations are... yada yada yada. |
Ok....so you didn't say "that".....however...I feel you like Implied it. If not...my apologies.
Hey...just have to say out front you are one of my favorite people in these forums and I am definitely not on your ass or trying to make you feel dumb.
The original title and post was:
"VWOA- VW of America parts - are they legit?"
Busdaddy next noted "VWOA was a brand of dealer supplied options, not made by VW, but apparently approved by them"
While some accessory items over the years have been marked VWOA....VWOA is officially VW.
Your next few posts I thought were spot on questions pertaining to the fact that both parts marked VWOA and Autobahn seem to be just 3rd party "sanctioned" suppliers.
My whole point of interest is this post you made:
KTPhil said:
"It's not entirely clear to me that "Volkswagen Group of America" and "VWOA" are the same entity"
.....when in fact they ARE the same entity.
Whether they deal what would be termed "3rd party" parts or not (all of these parts have always been 3rd party. VW makes none of them)....the three "entities" that have been mentioned re all owned by VW and in fact VW group of America IS the exact same entity as VW of America.
VW of America is not an official name. Its a common shortening in use describing VW group of America.
Yeah....I get long winded....but you are being so brief in your replies in this thread that you are not telling us WHY we are incorrect.
If I am wrong about these VW entities i will stand corrected. However....please point out where and why we are wrong.
Ray |
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:06 am Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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Original bumper guard on my '71 Fastback.
Someone else's window sticker, note the signature block.
These do not contain the word "group," and they are official parts and legal documents. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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curveball. Maybe someone knows the answer. This is the best thread to put it.
VW Auto Group has a division named SSP. "Scalable Systems Platform." https://topelectricsuv.com/news/volkswagen/volkswagen-group-ssp-platform/
VW Heritage sells products that are listed as Genuine VW, and it also sells some parts labeled SSP - the logo has a small checkered flag in it. I suspect the two SSP companies are different but I do not know. Does anyone know the actual name of the company or a link to their webpage of the one that sells products thru VW Heritage. I'll ask VW Heritage if no one knows.
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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SSP sounds like a very recent construction, for upcoming electric vehicles. VW Heritage sounds like something vintage parts related, like this UK link:
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/
I can't answer your question, though.
BTW, I refused to enter the website you linked to. It's one of those "Russian Election" dialog boxes that gives you no choice but to "accept all cookies" to continue. Fu˘k that $hit. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
SSP sounds like a very recent construction, for upcoming electric vehicles. VW Heritage sounds like something vintage parts related, like this UK link:
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/
I can't answer your question, though.
BTW, I refused to enter the website you linked to. It's one of those "Russian Election" dialog boxes that gives you no choice but to "accept all cookies" to continue. Fuck that shit. |
sounded like that to me but VW Heritage sells both aftermarket and Genuine VW Parts in the UK. That said, some sleuthing found this. https://www.sspautomotiveparts.com/
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Original bumper guard on my '71 Fastback.
Someone else's window sticker, note the signature block.
These do not contain the word "group," and they are official parts and legal documents. |
The only things I see are
Stuart Perkins, later on started a pancake house
Four free electronic diagnoses….with no expiration date
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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Look immediately above his signature, the legal identity he is signing for: "Volkswagen of America, Inc." No "group" in that legal corporate title.
Also, same title under "Distributor Name and Address" top center. |
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Look immediately above his signature, the legal identity he is signing for: "Volkswagen of America, Inc." No "group" in that legal corporate title.
Also, same title under "Distributor Name and Address" top center. |
That is true. But so what? Words are not the things they designate. An entity can have any number of "legal corporate titles".
What you're doing is claiming that YOUR definition of "is", is better than someone else's definition of "is".
VWOA is a division of VW Group of America.
That makes VWOA the same thing as VW Group of America, sez I and most others it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_of_America
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Globespotter
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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| It was a dialog box that, until you answered, blocked access; the dialog box blocked the content. And there was only one choice offered... to accept all cookies! An "election" with only one candidate was a classic USSR practice. |
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Globespotter
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: VWOA - VW of America parts - are they legit? |
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Nope. Those other links refused to work for me. I clicked all over the page, and the only "live" link was to "Accept" all. I tried. Boy I tried.
Maybe different browsers react to their page code differently. Here at work I have no choice which browser to use. |
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Globespotter
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