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NurseryWalt Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2016 Posts: 143 Location: Abbotsford, BC
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Hi Jeremiah,
Great job on the seats! I will eventually get there too.
Walter _________________ '66 Bug with collector plate and '73 412 project |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Well it has been a long time once again.Life happened and I had to put the whole project on hold so I could focus my attention on finishing my house and selling and buying a new. We have relocated to another part of the state and are very happy with our relocation.
The move although putting quite a delay on the project has had its bonuses such as the heated shop I acquired with the new home and the lift that I bought and installed.It has changed my life.
I have been back at it this winter and figured I was long overdue to get back to this forum and give everyone an update and maybe some advice to come.
I've since established and set up the new shop and started in on sealing up the bottom of the car and addressing any rust issues( basically back to what I was doing) I've got the whole front end all treated for rust sealed up and mechanics back together,fuel tank refurbished,brake calipers rebuilt, suspension bushings,and now the back end all sealed up and ready for motor and transmission the entire mechanics and bearings assembly is completely rebuilt and air bag setup is back together and ready for it's maiden voyage some day. The belly section is next it has a bit of metal work to be done around the battery tray and I uncovered one rear corner of the heater vent that was rusted from the foam.Other side is fine.Most of the rest of the car is solid!
I am know tearing apart the engine and I sent the transmission to a reputable shop months ago( someone with experience in doing a few of these before and highly recommend) but still hasn't started it .Engine is looking great.so far I am planning on staying stock found a great deal on some flat top mahles.gonna do a valve job and I'm looking at a new cam from the type 4 store the ones I've seen ray suggest using with fi .crank bearings are all looking good but nothing has been measured.although I did have questions about bluing on crank around journals of rods but many people have assured me that was just from the heat treatment.?
Anywho I'll be back around.Ill share some pics too and more pics and updates to come.
I am |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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What's that grey stuff sprayed on the fender well? _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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I believe it is a factory undercoating? And while it's my understanding that they usually cause more rust it is not the case with this car anywhere it is not missing and it hasn't fallen off there is shiny metal underneath...It has a consistency of seam sealer and I am patching areas with a brushable seam sealer. |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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So they grey is just paint you put over everything? I thought you put some kind of undercoating on it. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
I believe it is a factory undercoating? And while it's my understanding that they usually cause more rust it is not the case with this car anywhere it is not missing and it hasn't fallen off there is shiny metal underneath...It has a consistency of seam sealer and I am patching areas with a brushable seam sealer. |
That stuff you were grinding away that is under the paint on the inside of your fenders that is kind of wrinkly and rough...and grinds away to white dust....is factory semi-rigid undercoating.
Its the same stuff used on many Porsche and a lot of Audi's and Mercedes. And you are correct. It has little or nothing to do with rusting...as long as its still intact and water tight.
One of the problems you can see here and there especially under the front end is that where they got it on excessively thick...like 0.125" or thicker ...when its on longer expanses of sheet metal that can flex over time...it cracks in the deeper areas.
This lets moisture seep down to the metal and THAT can cause rust.
So its not the undercoating ...its just how its applied. That stuff is bulletproof.
You can buy nearly exact versions of it in both spray cans and in gallons to use with a "shutz" gun. The Porsche guys swear by it. You can also get a very close/good version of it spray cans from NAPA.
I have a whole section of my thread about undercoating my front end and will be doing the rest in the early fall if all goes well. You can see the undercoating work on page 2
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20
Ray |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Heimlich,
Sorry I guess in some photos it looks a big grey.It is actually black I think that's just a glare It has been cleaned of rust on areas where undercoating missing, then Eastwood rust converter plus,then seam sealer to patch up missing undercoating then a final layer( only on the originally undercoated shell and not the parts)got a rubberized undercoating.
Maybe someone can tell me how to reply to someone specifically or highlight their reply as I see others do. I can't figure it out.🤔 |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6554 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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I can see how that might be black. Wow. It looks good nonetheless. You are making nice progress. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Pepperbilly Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 971 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
Heimlich,
Sorry I guess in some photos it looks a big grey.It is actually black I think that's just a glare It has been cleaned of rust on areas where undercoating missing, then Eastwood rust converter plus,then seam sealer to patch up missing undercoating then a final layer( only on the originally undercoated shell and not the parts)got a rubberized undercoating.
Maybe someone can tell me how to reply to someone specifically or highlight their reply as I see others do. I can't figure it out.🤔 |
To reply to a person just hit the "quote" in the upper right corner of the comments. That will highlight that person's quote and respond underneath, just like I have. I think that is what you are looking for unless you are sending a personal message which is a whole different animal.
Good to have you back! Nice looking work you are doing. Looks like you have less rust issues than I had. My front inner fenders were the worst but it is all gone and taken care of. This reminds me of my project where I was keeping everything like it just came out of the factory. I like stock stuff. Hopefully you are staying with the yellow body color. Which yellow is your car? I think there were 2 shades of yellow in '73.
Bill |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Pepperbilly wrote: |
Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
Heimlich,
Sorry I guess in some photos it looks a big grey.It is actually black I think that's just a glare It has been cleaned of rust on areas where undercoating missing, then Eastwood rust converter plus,then seam sealer to patch up missing undercoating then a final layer( only on the originally undercoated shell and not the parts)got a rubberized undercoating.
Maybe someone can tell me how to reply to someone specifically or highlight their reply as I see others do. I can't figure it out.🤔 |
To reply to a person just hit the "quote" in the upper right corner of the comments. That will highlight that person's quote and respond underneath, just like I have. I think that is what you are looking for unless you are sending a personal message which is a whole different animal.
Good to have you back! Nice looking work you are doing. Looks like you have less rust issues than I had. My front inner fenders were the worst but it is all gone and taken care of. This reminds me of my project where I was keeping everything like it just came out of the factory. I like stock stuff. Hopefully you are staying with the yellow body color. Which yellow is your car? I think there were 2 shades of yellow in '73.
Bill |
Thank you Bill , I do tend to like the stock stuff myself and I restored my beetle to mostly stock, but have decided to venture a bit with this one.. I plan on keeping it mostly stock but a bit of custom as well.such as the air bags and I am considering installing a big aftermarket rag top.Ive considered doing some other work such as shaving/ changing lights and some bumper modifications but I am torn between saving this rarity and making it my own truthfully...we'll see how it goes when it comes to those decisions. But there is no way in the world I'm changing the 'Texas' yellow. I love the color and all my kids and myself refer to it as " the yellow car". |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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So I am trying to decide what cam to buy and how to go about cam gears I want to keep everything stock and keep the fuel injection and am wondering the best way to accomplish this, do I use my stock cam gear? I am looking at either a LN 9590 or a web 73 the 9590 comes with a new gear but will I be better off with the stock matched gear? Or can I put the stock gear on the 9590 without issues? I'm currently planning on Flat top mahles 90s and without the shims I should be right about stock compression of 8.2/1..can I run these cams and keep everything else stock such as pushrods and rockers ( with attention to geometry of course)?Any other modifications involving these cams vs. stock? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
So I am trying to decide what cam to buy and how to go about cam gears I want to keep everything stock and keep the fuel injection and am wondering the best way to accomplish this, do I use my stock cam gear? I am looking at either a LN 9590 or a web 73 the 9590 comes with a new gear but will I be better off with the stock matched gear? Or can I put the stock gear on the 9590 without issues? I'm currently planning on Flat top mahles 90s and without the shims I should be right about stock compression of 8.2/1..can I run these cams and keep everything else stock such as pushrods and rockers ( with attention to geometry of course)?Any other modifications involving these cams vs. stock? |
What fuel system are you running? The web 73, the 9550 and 0590 will all run with the D-jet injection but will probably need a few tweaks.
The new gear will be fine. People get a little too hung up on the gear size. If its way off in backlash...you can always reuse your old one with a little machine work.
the new gears are the same ones that Web sells and they told me directly that they are all a -2 or -3.
The 9590 is based "around" the web #73...which is based around the early V cam from 411 and early 412...in valve timing. It has a bit more duration and lift. The 9590 should be a slightly better running cam with D-jet than the Web #73...especially idle wise.
You need to get that cam with the matched lifteres. Check everything else you have as well. Yes you can use the stock pushrods if you do not have to shim too far for geometry.
The reason I say look at the condition of everthing you have before you order...because if you need other things like pushrods or Porsche swivel feet (highly reccomend these)...then it sometimes makes better since to get L&N's deluxe kit that has everything. Pushrods, Porsche swivel feet...the good ones...cam, lifters, gear, bearings...and you can get the double thrust cam bearing option as well. Yes it costs more but when you work out all thats in it and what those things cost and all of the shipping from different places...its a bargain. Ray |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
So I am trying to decide what cam to buy and how to go about cam gears I want to keep everything stock and keep the fuel injection and am wondering the best way to accomplish this, do I use my stock cam gear? I am looking at either a LN 9590 or a web 73 the 9590 comes with a new gear but will I be better off with the stock matched gear? Or can I put the stock gear on the 9590 without issues? I'm currently planning on Flat top mahles 90s and without the shims I should be right about stock compression of 8.2/1..can I run these cams and keep everything else stock such as pushrods and rockers ( with attention to geometry of course)?Any other modifications involving these cams vs. stock? |
What fuel system are you running? The web 73, the 9550 and 0590 will all run with the D-jet injection but will probably need a few tweaks.
The new gear will be fine. People get a little too hung up on the gear size. If its way off in backlash...you can always reuse your old one with a little machine work.
the new gears are the same ones that Web sells and they told me directly that they are all a -2 or -3.
The 9590 is based "around" the web #73...which is based around the early V cam from 411 and early 412...in valve timing. It has a bit more duration and lift. The 9590 should be a slightly better running cam with D-jet than the Web #73...especially idle wise.
You need to get that cam with the matched lifteres. Check everything else you have as well. Yes you can use the stock pushrods if you do not have to shim too far for geometry.
The reason I say look at the condition of everthing you have before you order...because if you need other things like pushrods or Porsche swivel feet (highly reccomend these)...then it sometimes makes better since to get L&N's deluxe kit that has everything. Pushrods, Porsche swivel feet...the good ones...cam, lifters, gear, bearings...and you can get the double thrust cam bearing option as well. Yes it costs more but when you work out all thats in it and what those things cost and all of the shipping from different places...its a bargain. Ray |
The Thank you ray, that answers a lot of my questions.Ive never really had a clear understanding of what to do with the gears and backlash when rebuilding and the last engine I assembled it all worked out fine.Yes it is a djet.I did see the deluxe kit and I will consider that although everything I have is very nice with low miles.The gear I have now is a -3 so that should work good if anything with the web..I will definitely buy lifters and cam together and I would really just go with the 9590 deluxe kit but geez things are expensive and I'm trying to do it right without spending too much... |
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hulken Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2009 Posts: 92 Location: Norway
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Posted: Yesterday 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
Well it has been a long time once again.Life happened and I had to put the whole project on hold so I could focus my attention on finishing my house and selling and buying a new. We have relocated to another part of the state and are very happy with our relocation.
The move although putting quite a delay on the project has had its bonuses such as the heated shop I acquired with the new home and the lift that I bought and installed.It has changed my life.
I have been back at it this winter and figured I was long overdue to get back to this forum and give everyone an update and maybe some advice to come.
I've since established and set up the new shop and started in on sealing up the bottom of the car and addressing any rust issues( basically back to what I was doing) I've got the whole front end all treated for rust sealed up and mechanics back together,fuel tank refurbished,brake calipers rebuilt, suspension bushings,and now the back end all sealed up and ready for motor and transmission the entire mechanics and bearings assembly is completely rebuilt and air bag setup is back together and ready for it's maiden voyage some day. The belly section is next it has a bit of metal work to be done around the battery tray and I uncovered one rear corner of the heater vent that was rusted from the foam.Other side is fine.Most of the rest of the car is solid!
I am know tearing apart the engine and I sent the transmission to a reputable shop months ago( someone with experience in doing a few of these before and highly recommend) but still hasn't started it .Engine is looking great.so far I am planning on staying stock found a great deal on some flat top mahles.gonna do a valve job and I'm looking at a new cam from the type 4 store the ones I've seen ray suggest using with fi .crank bearings are all looking good but nothing has been measured.although I did have questions about bluing on crank around journals of rods but many people have assured me that was just from the heat treatment.?
Anywho I'll be back around.Ill share some pics too and more pics and updates to come.
I am |
Nice air-ride struts! Do you have air in he rear too, or planned to have? I am hoping for air-ride on all corners of my 412, so I would love more pictures of your setup. _________________ Follow me on Instagram: vw412carrera |
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Jeremiah Berger Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2018 Posts: 40 Location: MAINE
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Posted: Yesterday 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Jeremiah's 73 412 restoration project |
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hulken wrote: |
Jeremiah Berger wrote: |
Well it has been a long time once again.Life happened and I had to put the whole project on hold so I could focus my attention on finishing my house and selling and buying a new. We have relocated to another part of the state and are very happy with our relocation.
The move although putting quite a delay on the project has had its bonuses such as the heated shop I acquired with the new home and the lift that I bought and installed.It has changed my life.
I have been back at it this winter and figured I was long overdue to get back to this forum and give everyone an update and maybe some advice to come.
I've since established and set up the new shop and started in on sealing up the bottom of the car and addressing any rust issues( basically back to what I was doing) I've got the whole front end all treated for rust sealed up and mechanics back together,fuel tank refurbished,brake calipers rebuilt, suspension bushings,and now the back end all sealed up and ready for motor and transmission the entire mechanics and bearings assembly is completely rebuilt and air bag setup is back together and ready for it's maiden voyage some day. The belly section is next it has a bit of metal work to be done around the battery tray and I uncovered one rear corner of the heater vent that was rusted from the foam.Other side is fine.Most of the rest of the car is solid!
I am know tearing apart the engine and I sent the transmission to a reputable shop months ago( someone with experience in doing a few of these before and highly recommend) but still hasn't started it .Engine is looking great.so far I am planning on staying stock found a great deal on some flat top mahles.gonna do a valve job and I'm looking at a new cam from the type 4 store the ones I've seen ray suggest using with fi .crank bearings are all looking good but nothing has been measured.although I did have questions about bluing on crank around journals of rods but many people have assured me that was just from the heat treatment.?
Anywho I'll be back around.Ill share some pics too and more pics and updates to come.
I am |
Nice air-ride struts! Do you have air in he rear too, or planned to have? I am hoping for air-ride on all corners of my 412, so I would love more pictures of your setup. |
Thanks man, yes I do have the rear too and I'll get some pics of that and post them.I was gonna make a post eventually to show what I did and will hopefully do that too soon..keep an eye out this weekend I'll post some more pics of the rear.. |
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