Gecko Green Manxter #188 - Fiberglass Bodywork

[Atomic Aerospace]

"A special thanks to all who share their knowledge in these forums. I have found people's posts, knowledge and pictures quite helpful. Reading through people's build posts has helped me prepare for my build. I am hoping to document my build on here and, in turn, perhaps be of help to future builders too. This community is a wealth of talent and information."

With my framework slowly wrapping up, it's time to start thinking about my fiberglass body. I have already coated the underside of the fiberglass with truck bedliner for extra support, and it looks and feels great! Very happy with how it turned out. There are several projects I would like to start with:
o First and foremost, does anybody have a template for structural support for the fiberglass tail and side skirts? Do you think it's better to attach the tail (structurally) to the rear of the fiberglass, or do the transmission fork? I want to start fabricating any necessary brackets for structural support of the fiberglass. Any advice on structural support brackets would be very much appreciated!

o Hoses under the framework to pass wires through. I have read some posts about people doing this. I think i'm going to glass some hoses underneath the frame. It's not going to be one long hose running from the front to back, but rather two hoses with a space in the middle. This should make it easier to manipulate the wires and add more later if necessary. The hoses are smooth, because those hoses with the ridges can trap debris. I've chosen 1" hose, because i've heard larger hoses with excessive glassing can interfere with side braces.

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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[Atomic Aerospace]

After some difficult frame work I decided to treat myself to a glance at the body on the frame. I know the body has to go on and come off multiple times, but I really wanted to get some visual progress. It does feel good to see it coming together!

I was a little worried about the clearance between the body and the tires, and the body and the carb air filters. Luckily when I took it off the jacks, there's still plenty of clearance!

I ordered some wing mounts from Baja Edition. I was so thankful he started producing these, because I was really dreading fabricating specialized brackets to hold the wing on.

Now I will start fitting the body and roll cage. I've been trying to determine the best way to drill into the fiberglass. I've done some reading, and the best method is to put tape over the fiberglass before drilling. I'm not sure if there are any specific drill bits that are better for drilling fiberglass? Aside from special fiberglass bits online (which retail for $80 each ), I do not know if any of the big box stores have more affordable ones.

My intention is to get the frame and roll cage set in place as a mock up, make the necessary markings, drill the holes, then take the body back off so I can finish the chassis.
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[Atomic Aerospace]

Started with some very basic preliminary fitting today. Just getting a feel of how things are going to bolt together. I understand that the tub must first be spread and fit, then the cage installed. I'm not doing either yet, i'm just getting a feel of how it'll all fit together.
It seems like the passenger side B hoop is not lining up correctly. Not sure how i'm going to spread that apart. Perhaps wedging a piece of wood in between to stretch the cage?

The right side B hoop lines right up:

I didn't get pictures but the A hoop's holes are centered on the tub, but the hoops don't butt up against the tub walls.
It also looks like i'm going to have to fabricate some shims for the C hoop as well, as the gap between the roll cage and the tub is excessive. I've read the horror stories of people not fabricating the shims and trying to tighten the roll cage gap with bolts, only to crack the tub. *shivers*

Another issue i'm seeing right away is the tub is somehow not centered with the frame. It's a strange issue, but if you look at the pictures below, you'll notice the front-driver side of the tub fits perfectly against the front bulkhead. However, if you look at the front-passenger side of the tub, there is about a 1" gap between the bulkhead and the tub. It's very odd, because the tub is centered on the body and the tunnel.

Driver Side - Aft of front bulkhead (flush - no gap)

Passenger side - Aft of front bulkhead (1" gap)

Driver Side - Forward of front bulkhead (flush - no gap)

Passenger Side - Forward of front bulkhead (1"gap)

I've moved the body around left and right, attempted to see if it's hung up on something, but it doesn't appear to be stuck on anything. It's almost as if the body and/or tub are slightly crooked? Has anyone experienced this before?
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[joemama]

I have used wood wedges, ratchet straps, shims, crowbars, and whatever seems appropriate at the time, to make things work. You have a beautiful, well made body, and should be able to expect it to fit well, and it probably fits better than a used, patched up one. But, you are still dealing with a custom situation, the pan might not be perfect, side to side, ( I would be surprised if any are perfect), and the body itself is also probably not perfect. It could be slightly warped, shrunk, etc. None of the above is unusual, and its part of the build, to find the most elegant, and satisfying to you, way to make it work. Its all part of building your dream buggy. Have fun with it.

[isucorvair]

I asked a question to Bruce M. about this when he was making an "appearance" at a show in Minneapolis.

Basically - he said 'some bodies come out of the mold and want to move this way, some want to move that way - no two are the same'.


Eric P.
DeWitt, IA

[joemama]

I went up to Big Bear this last weekend (without my buggy, its not ready), to the show and shine part of the Manx Club event. The new Manx Company had a booth set up, and featured a new body completely designed by them. One of the benefits they mentioned, is that its symmetrical, they said the Bruce era ones never were. But, for me, the new body is post the Bruce era, so not the same Manx.

[Atomic Aerospace]

To deal with the warping issue mentioned in my previous post, I purchased these expandable stands on Amazon for $80. Yes it's a bit pricey, bit to me it's worthwhile if it prevents damaging the priceless buggy.

For the sides of the buggy the maintenance manual mentions to put pieces of wood between the body and fiberglass to space it apart. I opted to use these instead, as I have more control over their precision, and I can be certain nothing will get marred or damaged. They have a grip that pushes the spacers apart. This little touch is awesome, because it allows me to expand the body slowly and gradually. All the creaking and crackling noises the fiberglass makes when expanding has me on edge every time

I've started to space and drill the body mounting bolts using a diamond cut hole saw bit from Ace Hardware. The bit was pricey too, $20 if I recall, but it's well worth it. I'm debating whether or not to bore the body holes one size larger and install metal sleeves. This is how we deal with composite in aircraft maintenance, so i'm wondering if I should try it on the fiberglass. Secure a metal sleeve with superglue into the bore hole, then pass the bolt through the sleeve, instead of through the bare fiberglass.

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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[Atomic Aerospace]

Running into another issue with mounting the tub. I temporarily installed the tub and roll cage, then drilled the holes for mounting them both. After removing the tub, I temp installed the roll cage to ensure the holes of the roll cage A and B hoops align with the holes on the side braces. On the A hoop, the holes align just fine. On the B hoop, they don't align The roll cage is about 1/2" too far forward. The roll cage, however, is as far back as it can be mounted with the body on. With the body on, there is no room to pull the B hoop any further backwards.

Passenger B hoop

Driver B hoop

I asked for some advice on the Facebook group and got some feedback, but nothing definitive. So far i'm thinking I have 2 options:
Either I cut off the side rail mounting plate and weld it back on 1/2" forward so it lines up with the roll cage mounting plate, or I fabricate some extended bracket to mount between the side rail and the roll cage (although it won't provide the same strength).

I know the old adage of persuasive fitting, but unfortunately in this case I can't. It's impossible for the B hoop to go any further back.
Any thoughts?
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[sbussard]

I just logged in to the Samba for the first time in a long time. and found your thread. Reach out to Mike Lombardo on FB. He just went through (or is currently going through) the same B hoop issues. I don't have any warm fuzzy solutions for you. as I went brute force to get them to line up. I wouldn't recommend it. but it is what I had to do.

Looking great! Can't wait to hear you're driving it!
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Manxter #122
First time, garage built, and living out the childhood dream of owning a life-size Hotwheel!

Check out my build thread-->My Manxter 2+2

[EVfun]

[jbsx127]

Maybe unbolt B hoop from the floor, persuade the cage to line up with the subframe and with the tub in place, bolt it. Ratchet strap the b hoop leg to pull it forward and than bolt to floor.
Ratchet strap between the b hoop leg and the A hoop leg.
Mine took allot of massaging to get them to line up.

[Atomic Aerospace]

School semester is finally done! This means I have 2 weeks to get some buggy work done, let's see how much I can get accomplished.

Haven't done too much body work yet. The latest project has been getting the tail lights installed. It starts with positioning the lights, then cutting holes in the fiberglass. The Manxter has small dimples in the tail light section of the fiberglass. I positioned the tail lights, and the 4 housing bolts seemed to line up with the dimples. I proceeded to cut holes in the fiberglass dimples. While I was doing this, one of the driver side holes chipped Luckily it was behind the light, so it wasn't going to be visible. I applied some super glue, and it's hidden pretty well. I eyeballed the center hole for the wiring harness. I cut all the holes slightly oversized to allow for positioning.

Upon fitting the tail light assembly into the holes, I found the mounting bolts were far too short to fit through the fiberglass. The mounting bolts have flush heads and appear to be pressed into place. After some research I found they are actually cap head bolts which are superglued into place. Used the ol' double-nut method to break the bolts loose. Replaced them with longer bolts and superglued them into place. While all bolts were too short, the bottom bolts need to be longer than the top bolts for clearance purposes.
Upon fitting the assembly to the fiberglass, I noticed 2 things: First, the assembly was not lining up just right. Second, the assembly seemed to be sitting high on the fiberglass. After doing some research, I found the cause of the first issue: the reason the assembly was not lining up just right is because I had the right and left assemblies reversed when I drilled the holes
I thought I had positioned the tail light in the correct configuration, but apparently I did not. Basically, I positioned the right light on the left side, and the left light on the right side. After doing some digging I found a great picture on the correct orientation of the lighting:

I probably would have got this right the first time if I was modifying an existing bug. Since mine is a ground-up build, I had no frame of reference. I'll chock this one up to lack of experience. Luckily the tail light assemblies are nearly symmetrical, so it wasn't a difficult correction. A little more drilling and some gentle persuasion and the lights would fit into their respective sides. But before fixing issue 1, I needed to address issue 2: why the assemblies seemed to be sitting high. The only thing I can figure is that the dimples are not necessarily in the correct spot. It seems to me like the dimples probably need to be moved down by about 1/8 inch or so. Or, instead of builders drilling the dimples, builders should instead drill 1/8 to 1/4 below the dimples. Because, as I now know, by drilling the dimples, your lights will sit slightly high. The top of the light assembly's base will stick up just over the contour of the car, instead of sitting flush with the fiberglass.

To correct both issues, I elongated the holes downwards, which let the lights sit more flush, in the correct positions. After mounting the base I tightened the nuts, which I fitted with bonded sealing washers (washers that have a rubber grommet on one side, to prevent damaging the fiberglass). I applied RTV sealant to the electrical cable hole so dirt doesn't get trapped behind the light assembly.
From a distance it doesn't look bad, you can't really tell. It's one of those situations where I just have to chock it up to a learning experience and move on with the project. I guess all these little quirks are what makes it my unique build, right?

Once the bases were installed, I installed the lenses. These lenses seem very poor quality. They do not sit correctly, and certainly don't make a good seal between the lens and the base. Again, from a distance, they don't seem bad. But up close I can tell the lenses don't seat correctly. I worry about moisture getting in there. I had to install the top screws first, and gently massage the lens into place. I got the screws just barely tight and I heard a pop from the driver side lens. It seems the hole where the screw passes through the lens cracked. It's inside the lens so you can't really tell, but it's very strange. The screws were barely over finger tight. At this point I left the screws finger tight and called it good. These lights seem a lot more difficult than they appear. I thought it would be easy, but I guess it's all a learning experience. Hopefully future builders can also learn from my pains!

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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[Atomic Aerospace]

As mentioned in the post discussing the tail lights, a big piece of fiberglass chipped off. I was able to glue it back on, however it reminds me just how fragile fiberglass can be. While it is malleable, it is also easily broken/chipped. I decided to fabricate metal doublers to attach to "pressure points", or points which may be more likely to crack due to stress. We frequently use doublers in aviation to reinforce weakened areas. It's basically a piece of metal which attaches to an area to add reinforcement. It almost acts like a giant washer, helping distribute stress over a large area. They can be fastened with JB weld. Multiple clamps keep the doubler firmly in place while the JB weld dries.

This way, the weight and stress experienced by fiberglass is not concentrated on the bolt holes, but distributed among a greater area.

Doubler for the nose hood latch

Top: doubler for the front beam-to-body mounts (where the front beam mounts to the fiberglass)
Middle: doublers for the tail wing
Bottom: nose hood latch (not painted yet)

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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.

[Atomic Aerospace]

With a couple 3 day weekends I was able to get some more work accomplished on the build! The body is being temp installed, as I will need to remove it later to finish welding the seat tracks. I will also need to remove parts later to get them painted. I plan to have the dash wrapped to look like carbon fiber.

The lower dash was drilled and temp installed.

I had to grind some material off the passenger side edge to get the top of the dash to fit. After fitting the top of the dash, I began fitting the glove box assembly. It is pretty straightforward. It also required some of the passenger side edge to be ground off to latch correctly. Below are some pictures of before grinding the edge off, and after.

I also fitted the rear seats. I used Meyer Manx's own rear seat design, as i'm trying to keep it as close to original as possible. I don't like how much pressure the rear seat assembly is going to be putting on the fiberglass, so i'm going to continue fabricating doublers for other side of the fiberglass. This way the seat tracks aren't putting so much pressure onto the fiberglass: some of the stress will be transferred to the metal doubler.
I will also pad the rear seats with foam and cover them with seat covers, which I have not acquired yet.

I've also temp mounted the windshield. I had to grind the corners off the roll cage mounting posts so the windshield sits more flush. For some reason the windshield still sticks out quite a bit from the roll cage.

I've discussed the issue with a few Manxter owners with mixed responses. One suggested I position the windshield forward slightly. I've tried this, and the issue with moving the windshield forward is that it creates a space between the inside of the windshield and the top of the dash. You can see straight through to the lower dash, so this won't work. Another suggestion was to fit everything else. If everything else fits, don't worry about the excess space. It won't hurt anything. I'm wondering if, when I pad the roll cage, if I pad the frame around the windshield, if it'll close the gap?
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Gecko Green Manxter 2+2 (#188) "The Last Manxter"

"Meyers Manx embodies the spirit of freedom, creativity and fun. No other car gets more smiles per mile than the Meyers Manx!"

From homeless to homeowner.
From uneducated to an MBA scholar.
From a nobody to a corporate aerospace manager.
From a boy to a self made man.
From a dream to reality.