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vabole.lv Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: latvia
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:20 pm Post subject: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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Hi, guys!
I'm not new to thesamba.com, but I've been silent for some time. I already tried to start a discussion about the engine under the oval beetle forum, but somehow... didn't get any response. So this is my take number two
The thing is I have an end of '56 VW convertible with a matching numbers engine, I have been driving for some time, but now doing full resto. And it turns out that after splitting the case my crankshaft is a bit damaged with most of the dowels gone. So it needs a replacement
At the same time, I got a full set of Judson supercharger which I'm intended to use. And since it's much easier to get a 69.5 mm Okrasa-style crankshaft than an original 64, I'm wondering - is it a way to go? And if yes, which connecting rods would fit along (NOS is also hard to spot).
Found few relevant topics here, but none of them gets to the answer. Still have some 100 tabs open. So this is my hope to get a few shortcuts. Maybe someone already has done that and can share some engine specs
Thanks in advance,
Peteris from Latvia _________________ '57 convertible '67 beetle |
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vabole.lv Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: latvia
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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It seems very hard to get some attention here, but I will continue to ping until I get pong Especially that I'm in the right mood - got almost all the pieces together - pan is ready for assembly and the body is the opposite - almost disassembled and ready to visit sandblasting and then - the paint shop.
But, regarding the engine.....
Went through almost everything in Samba forums (yes, yes, there is a chance that something has been missed due to the fact that English is not my native language and maybe I'm using the wrong keywords).
So here's my initial setup:
- Okrasa 69.5 mm counterweight crankshaft (actually the only counterweight available, my original is damaged and hard to repair)
- Okrasa dual port heads (mines are cracked, big risk of them falling apart)
- Custom-made manifold - from Judson to dual port heads - will use the principle of Okrasa manifolds, but all welded to bigger intake connecting to Judson, keeping the old vintage style look)
- Abarth exhaust (been sitting on a shelf for some time)
Still haven't figure out:
- Engle or Okrasa camshaft - more reading needed
- Connecting rods - seems like there are not many options, I guess will have to stick to the stock
- Rockers - also need to read more or go through different setups....
Not sure how much time will be needed to assemble this, but I hope 2023 will be the year when I finally will hit the streets _________________ '57 convertible '67 beetle |
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scotty timmerman Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: gigharbor W.A
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vabole.lv Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: latvia
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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Hi!
First of all, thank you for rod link - didn't know such site. Here in Europe we more stick to Paruzzi, CSP or VW Heritage.
Regarding camshaft, I'm currently looking at this one - for 36 hp engine
https://www.bbt4vw.com/en/catalogue/5-engine/2-low...sa-style-/ _________________ '57 convertible '67 beetle |
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PatJr Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 205 Location: earth
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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there seems to be a good sized budget behind this
can you fit up a regular 1600 and trans in the frame?
set the original parts aside for a museum
and do post lots of motor porn during your build please
imho _________________ #############################################
1970 Transporter a orange one
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7216 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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Unless you have already bought parts, stop right there, and answer a qouple of questions.
1. Are you buying Okrasa copy parts because you need to replace worn out stock parts or because you want a better running engine with more grunt(power)?
2. There are several places to get good parts for the 30 hp. If you want a nice and powerfull engine you need to diversify your purchases to several shops/persons.
3. If it is a show car or a city car you can use the Judson. If you intend to put some kms on the engine (long distance) I would advise against installing the Judson. Too many problems with them. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993 |
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vabole.lv Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: latvia
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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PatJr wrote: |
can you fit up a regular 1600 and trans in the frame?
set the original parts aside for a museum |
I guess there are two things why I will not stick to the regular 1600
a) I have a matching numbers case in a really good shape (except the crank and heads), just need some fine machining and spicing things up
b) It's more interesting to take a different path, maybe stumble and fall, but at the end - widen your horizons.
I took the same approach a decade ago with my split bus. And that was one hell of a ride. Lowered, loud, very responsible and quite fast, making 100 mph with no problem. Still missed
_________________ '57 convertible '67 beetle |
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vabole.lv Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2005 Posts: 18 Location: latvia
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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Alstrup wrote: |
1. Are you buying Okrasa copy parts because you need to replace worn out stock parts or because you want a better running engine with more grunt(power)? |
It's a bit from both worlds... I need new heads and the new crank, anyway. And price-wise, of course, there is a difference between the used standard crank and the new Okrasa, but the latter is new and a counterweight. The same goes for heads. And of course, I want to add some kick to my 67 years old friend.
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2. There are several places to get good parts for the 30 hp. If you want a nice and powerfull engine you need to diversify your purchases to several shops/persons. |
Yes, yes, I have made a spreadsheet with all the parts and most of the sources, but still there are some what I haven't heard and some I don't know how reliable are. My list so far includes: BBT, CIP1, Hotrod, CSP, Wolfsburg West, VW Classic, Paruzzi, VW Heritage, Heritage Stocks, Scat VW, Kaeferland and, finally, an Ebay. Feel sad for Aircooled net - it seems to be the only place which had wiring harness for '57 convertible, but they are down and currently out of the game
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3. If it is a show car or a city car you can use the Judson. If you intend to put some kms on the engine (long distance) I would advise against installing the Judson. |
More like a city car with few long trips. Have some other cars as well which I need to take for a spin. Actually, I went through many forum topics here and there are like 50/50 balance between the people against Judson and people who are using them and taking the long distances with no problems.
I was making my list of cons and pros (Judson vs Okrasa kit) already five years ago and chooses to go the Judson way. And since I already own my nice Judson kit, I guess that means no turning back for me _________________ '57 convertible '67 beetle |
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PatJr Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 205 Location: earth
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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wow
that is some nice looking bus
looking forward to any build pic you post
(couldn't find a peace sign) _________________ #############################################
1970 Transporter a orange one
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015 Posts: 719 Location: Rialto. CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Okrasa crankshaft with Judson |
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Your better off just building the okrasa dual carbs instead of the okrasa/ judson combination you will most likely over drive the judson and time for rebuild....there's a reason why you hardly see judsons around and if you do it's mostly on stock 1200cc engines on show cars ...most folks over Rev and over drive those judson in which they rattle ..everybody think that ohh its a supercharger/ blower I can Rev it but in reality a juson wasn't intended for that type of usage and most folks over rev them judson because their engines are not build for its usage meaning there engines are to powerfull for that restrictor blower in which the engine wants to breath more but the judson it holding it back ...some folks use to try the judson with the 69.5 cranks but found out it didn't do much they found better results with dual carbs ...a pepco/ speedwell supercharger is better than the judson some folks have tried your combination okrasa/ supercharger setup but with the pepco/ speedwell it little results as well but say it was better than the judson/ okrasa setup ....but found out dual carbs was the way to go it gots better power and cost way cheaper ...but if that what you want to build hey go for it if you just want the look thing a judson does get looks at a show since you hardly see them but it's just a look thing lol ...if your looking for power go with the okrasa 69.5 crank 80mm or even 83mm bore and zenith 32 ndix carbs that's the simple setup unless you go out the simple way and add larger valves to the okrasa heads port polish, porsche 74mm crank ,rods, performance cam, dual 40mm carbs so on so on ....there are so many ways to go in a 36hp build its not even funny there are so many setups to go ...a judson your basically limited on what you can or can't do it's a head ach....I remember a guy did a dyno test on a stock 36hp and than there at the dyno place he installed the judson and dynoed it the stock engine gave more hp lol the judson made less he than did it again that day both setups on same stock engine judson still gave less hp but had more torque but every little .... judson gives torque and by you installing a 69.5 crank thats more torque ... you want torque and hp in which dual carbs give both with big bore ....you cant big bore a judson because it's restricted " engines is to big for that small blower " in which for you to give the engine the power it needs you will be over driving it and wear it down.... you have 2 power setups that are not good together but are good/ better by themselfs ...but to all reach its own if that's your dream setup go for it if your thinking of making the cheaper / better setup okrasa dual carbs setup is it ...but if you want torque just keep the stock 1200cc judson setup as is and enjoy it as is ... why spend extra unless it's all about look how much I'm spending " bragging rights " .... |
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