themostat position sensor

[oprn]

[volkaholic1]

the stat gauges gives you real world data on HOW the stat is working, that is what i like about it,
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Volkaholic

[Glenn]

How did I drive a vw for 50 years not knowing the stat of my stat?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

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[volkaholic1]

some people, like me, just want to know more
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Volkaholic

[chrisflstf]

If a tstat position or temp sensor is irrelevant, then so are oil temp, oil pressure and other gauges. So get rid of your redundancy. His idea is a good idea, if you dont like it fine, no need to trash it

[Glenn]

[volkaholic1]

yes, i have an AF gauge, thanks for asking
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Volkaholic

[clonebug]

If you want information you can get a computer to output anything you want to see if you put a sensor to it.

Here is my new dash I am using. It's an EcuMaster ADU-5 Digital dash capable of displaying most anything you want to display if you hook a sensor to it. It communicates with the ECU thru Can-Bus and also has digital and analog inputs you can connect to.

Here is the opening page it defaults to when I start it.

This pic shows the info I used on my trip to Big Bear this past summer but I added the Baro later that is displayed on this page. I've also added a high beam indicator and turn signal indicators to it.

It has 7 pages you can populate with info if desired by default. I have 4 pages working with my info and the others are still a default page that I will change later down the road.
I can scroll through them with a button on my dash.
The next two are just info from the PMU-16 and the ECU for a quick glance to see if all is ok.

The six lights on the right and left sides are programmable for anything you want as on/off or temp/volt/pressure activated.
I have two of them displaying my Water injection activation at this time.
The top row of lights are shift lights programmable for any rpm using three colors.

Most all sensors are based on the 0-5 volt range but you can input parameters for other types if wanted.
The GM style gauges for coolant and IAT are a standard and easy to install since they are a default parameter.

Since the ECU is broadcasting all available data over the Can-Bus stream you can grab whatever you want by setting it up in the software program.
I plan on adding altitude to one of the screens so I have instant elevation at all times.....nice to know when you are topping the 10th summit on a long trip.
What I found interesting was the Map/Baro reading at rest. I saw a map of 73 with the engine off. It would take 3-4 lbs boost to get the map back to 100-103.1 kpa which is sea level Barometer.

Since I have an MS3PRO-EVO I have lots of inputs and outputs available and I could add sensors for most anything I want.
I think a stepper motor controlled thermostat flap system would be fun to try.
Whether a standard Idle Control Valve stepper motor would be strong enough to hold against the air flow is a question I can't answer right now.
(I also thought a Stepper valve controlling the oil cooler passage for warmup would be something fairly easy to incorporate.....It could default open on startup and close or open depending on oil temp just like I am using it for idle speed on warmup....I'll have to look into that too.)
That would be the cheapest way but there are other stepper motors out there that have more power.
I might have to add a Temp sensor to see what the air temps are coming out of the head over the thermostat. Right now my temp sensor is bolted to the #3 cylinder tin bolt and is used mostly for warm up fuel enrichment only. It does give me trending temp info when driving since I can see it real time.
A TPS styled sensor could record the thermostat movement which again is a 0-5 volt sensor. Easy enough to program I would think using a spare input on the ECU then outputting it to the digital dash for viewing and/or log it from the ECU.

Concerning info regarding thermostat temps.......
I have found the head temps get the highest when coming to a stop after running fairly hard.
Climbing a 5-6% grade for 20 miles I saw head/coolant temps of 249.0* F. and oil temps topped at 214.6* F. at 60 mph. This was at ambient temps of 90-95 plus degrees F.
Normal temps seem to be around 218* F for the head and 170* F for my oil in local driving. I see 185-200* F. only when it is 90-95 degrees out which is quite rare around the PNW.
Thinking about it .......it might make more sense to move the sensor to the airstream below the head by the thermostat. the only thing would be the heat soak you would get due to the whole sensor being heated so instant temp changes would not be easily recorded. This might be a place to add a K or J type sensor and input the analog output to the ECU for more instant temp changes.
I could get another K type sensor for my PLX EGT gauge and use that for the thermostat temp readings.......I might just order a new one and add it in during this winter's upgrade.
I have to pull the body to run the wire for my IAC valve anyways.....what's another couple wires?????

I love electronics so it's fun and challenging for me.......to others it might be too complicated and/or expensive.
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[EVfun]

That information setup is cool Clonebug. One thing I like about the buggy forum is the huge range of creativity and results. I see it here too, a range of goals and efforts. You do great work, but I have my VWs for carbs and all the rest of the automotive history -- the way it was that's NOT on my Tacoma engine. I may yet swap my alternator with internal regulator for a generator and mechanical regulator.
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[Glenn]

That's crazy.


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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

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[volkaholic1]

it just shows what is possible if you got the tech, the time, and the money, super cool, id like some of that

but just watching my stat slowly cycle as it controls the engine temp shows how "simple is better" and my setup to see the stat is simple.
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Volkaholic

[oprn]

[Glenn]

[EVfun]

[ghianowbug]

Glenn keeps referring to the thermostat failing open that is providing you use the German style my understanding is that the Mexican thermostat fails closed

[scottyrocks]

[volkaholic1]

i think we have beaten to death bad mouthing the "mexian stat" but if someone has one, we could install this sensor on it and see how it really works in the real world, i know it reacts slower due to needing to heat up and / or cool the wax inside. but would makem a great comparision chart.
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Volkaholic

[vamram]

[Glenn]

Good one

Bad one

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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[Buggeee]

I like it
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