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68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

3foldfolly wrote:
Would be a good time to replace the torque converter seal with the engine removed. Torque converter bushing is probably fine considering the low mileage on the car..


Thanks for the advice. Yes, I have a new Torque Converter seal. The original definitely is leaking.

I started cleaning up the flex plate. It's in good shape but there's surface rust on the outer edges. It's coming off easily with fine wet sand paper, leaving clean smooth metal. I'm sure balance is important so I don't want to do anything that will affect balance but what's the best way to protect it from rust? I don't know if taping off the center and a light spray of clear paint would be a bad idea?

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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Spring is coming fast. Seems like something has come up every weekend since the holidays and I've not made much progress on the engine but the last week has been more productive.

I used vinegar and Phosphoric Acid to clean up the Flex Plate and sprayed all but the center with Clear High Temp engine paint. Installed the new front main seal (or rear main seal) for some. and put a new O-ring in the flex plate. The engine is pretty filthy so the front of the case got a good cleaning before reinstalling the flex plate.

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The golden color around the center hub is all that remains of the original plating. I taped off the center on both sides.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

The weather has been much warmer and the garage is actually over 40 degrees which turned out to be quite comfortable to work in. I have the engine stripped down. Removed the muffler which is shot, heat exchangers, fan shroud, and all the tin except for the tin under the cam pulley. I was able to get the bolt off the pulley but the pulley itself isn't moving. I have a puller but it's not wide enough to use on a VW pulley. I had soaked the bolts and nuts with PB Blaster at least 5 or 6 times since dropping the engine so everything came off pretty easy.

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Now I'm trying to figure out where my oil leaks are coming from. The front main seal was leaking and I already replaced it.

The oil cooler is dripping down the left side of the engine onto cylinders 3 and 4 but to be honest, I expected to see much more leaking at the oil cooler. I also thought the push rod tubes were leaking but now I'm thinking the left side is only wet from oil dribbling down from the oil cooler. I have new seals for the oil cooler so hopefully this will resolve the left side? Please feel free to educate me if I'm missing anything. This is my first air cooled engine clean up?

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On the right side however, I'm a little puzzled. There is more oil leaking down onto the push rods. Maybe the push rods are not leaking after all? The top rear of the case is quite wet and I'm seeing most of it seems to be coming from the area around the fuel pump, distributor and Generator Stand. Can anyone explain why the Generator stand has so much oil coming down the stand and the back pressure tube? Is this normal? There's a fair amount of oil running down the right rear of the engine onto the tin under the pulley.

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The push rods tubes look like they might not be leaking and I really don't wan to replace the tubes if they are not a problem. I know I could change them anyway as a preventive maintenance but I also don't want to back the heads off if I don't need to. Here's what I'm seeing on the push rod tubes:
Left side at case.
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Left side at head.
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Right side at case.
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Right side at head.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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jeffrey8164 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

I know you don't want to pull the heads, but you've already made it this far. I'd do the gen/alt stand, distributor o-ring and the fuel pump as well.
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

jeffrey8164 wrote:
I know you don't want to pull the heads, but you've already made it this far. I'd do the gen/alt stand, distributor o-ring and the fuel pump as well.


Definitely planning to reseal the distributor, fuel pump and oil pump as well, but hadn't thought much about the generator stand?
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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obus Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Im following this because every VW i own right now is leaking oil
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

obus wrote:
Im following this because every VW i own right now is leaking oil


Well, maybe it's true that "If it's not leaking, it must be out of oil" Shocked
Laughing
The guy who helped me drop the engine told me I should drive it as is until it really needs repair but after 54 years, it really needed a clean up and I'm have fun doing it while at the same time improve the condition and know that it will be that much more reliable. It's also a great way to learn. Better than sitting on the couch reading The Samba all the time. Laughing
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Everything is looking great!

Pulling the heads isn't any more difficult than what you have already done.
The pushrod tubes and seals are not going to get better.
If you decide to replace the tubes and seals just remember to have a plan to organize the pushrods to keep them in the order they were removed and the proper orientation.
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Marcdeb
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

kingkarmann wrote:
Everything is looking great!

Pulling the heads isn't any more difficult than what you have already done.
The pushrod tubes and seals are not going to get better.
If you decide to replace the tubes and seals just remember to have a plan to organize the pushrods to keep them in the order they were removed and the proper orientation.


I've read up extensively on changing push rod tubes. I have a full set of NOS VW tubes and fresh seals but I've been going back and forth. I have 3 choices:
1. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but not craxy about kicking the can down the road.
2. Go the simple route and push spring loaded tubes in - not excited about ruining the original appearance.
3. Do it right and install new original tubes.

My only reservation with going with new original tubes is the worry that one or more of the cylinders will not release from the heads and then I open a can of worms! I thought about spraying some PB Blaster around the tops of the heads in hopes that it would help them come apart. Anyone have any pros or cons to that idea?
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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kingkarmann
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

If you go ahead with removing the heads I would try and remove them without using any chemicals.
If the heads don't seem to want to move after some strategic and careful tapping then I would proceed with some heat near the jugs & head.
Focus on the aluminum and let the metal expand. It wont need to get very hot. The head should tap off.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Heads usually come off easily enough. It’s aluminum on iron so they don’t corrode together. At most you use a rubber mallet and tap around the heads or lightly on the exhaust studs to break the seal.
Unless you want to reseal the base of the cylinders you need to make sure they don’t move during the process. You can wire them up or find some other way to keep them from falling odd the case.
Problem is once you pull the heads you are likely to discover other issues. Head cracks, scratched barrels…and then all of a sudden you are sliding down a slippery slope to full rebuild.
Me, I wouldn’t pull the heads…if it ain’t broke…
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:

Problem is once you pull the heads you are likely to discover other issues. Head cracks, scratched barrels…and then all of a sudden you are sliding down a slippery slope to full rebuild.
Me, I wouldn’t pull the heads…if it ain’t broke…


That's what's keeping me on the fence! If I try to pull the heads, there's no going back if there's problems. After cleaning the engine yesterday, I'm a bit more confident that the existing original tubes are not leaking or at the very least not leaking much. If one or two develop leaks in the future, I can just simply replace with spring loaded tubes without dropping the engine. No harm done, and I have not permanently altered the engine. I can still do original tubes at a later date.
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68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

You know, it’s really not the end of the world if the jugs pull loose.
A little acetone, a wire brush and some ultra copper and you’re back in business
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

jeffrey8164 wrote:
You know, it’s really not the end of the world if the jugs pull loose.
A little acetone, a wire brush and some ultra copper and you’re back in business


Thanks for the encouragement. I thought changing the torque converter seal and the forward main seal were going to be more of a challenge but they both ended up being very simple. I'm running out of time so I'll have to decide soon. Decisions!! Brick wall
Laughing
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Spent most of the day cleaning up the tins and getting them ready to paint.

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Also started cleaning up the heat exchangers. The muffler is pretty old and might even by the original. When I removed the muffler several weeks ago, it was so rusted that the pipes to the heat exchangers just broke away with no effort at all so I removed the remaining flange of muffler pipe from the back end of the heat exchangers. They were on there pretty good and the only way to get them off was to use a Dremel tool and cut the remaining muffler pipes and pry them off.
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The heat exchangers are in great shape other than one has 2 rust holes and will need repair.
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I saw a thread on here that discussed mufflers not aligning very well, especially Brazilian mufflers, which is what I bought last summer. I Checked the fit today and the connections to the heads were off about 3/16 inch. I used a dead blow hammer and it only took about 3 or 4 hits on the muffler connections to line them up. Much easier than I was expecting.

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Knowing that the paint on the muffler from the factory won't last long, will it do any good to respray another coat of high heat paint over the paint that is on the muffler now?
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Marc, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but both of your cylinder heads have been spray painted a light grey along the bottom. You can see the slight overspray onto the bottoms of the head ends of the pushrod tubes, and on the bottom-facing surface of the road draft tube. Also a mismatch to the original cast silver color on the cooling ribs. Maybe this was done shortly before the sale by the PO to make the engine appear "fresher". Also, the fuel pump now on there is Brazilian (BROSOL brand cast into the body on the forward side) even though it is the correct square-top style as an original Pierburg/DVG (Deutsche Vergaser Gesellshaft = German carburetor group).

If you do decide to replace the PR tubes with single-piece ones (thereby removing the heads), I strongly recommend stainless steel ones sold by CB Performance... and then use the IVORY silicon PR tube seals. I used the SS tubes 20 yrs ago when rebuilding the 1600 engine on my Fastback, and unfortunately it has been parked all this time due to lots of rot on the body and chassis. But the PR tubes have held up completely unrusted, per my photo from 2016:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

My guess as to the oil on the gen stand side of the engine, is that the thin baffle between the stand and the engine case was installed wrong, and that the 2 gaskets which are supposed to be above and below that baffle are either partly broken, or one might be missing entirely.

The cleaned engine tin which you photo'd still has the correct "medium/cloudy shine" original factory finish on the sections. I've used semi-gloss Rust-O-Leum spray paint for redoing tins that were cleaned off, but even that might be too glossy. The next lower level of shine would be satin finish; you could experiment on one of those parts, let it dry, then place it next to an unfinished but clean tin piece for direct side-by-side comparison. Defnitely don't use flat black, nor glossy black. Also realize that spray paint easily comes off with solvent. It'll hold up to engine oil though.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Marc, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but both of your cylinder heads have been spray painted a light grey along the bottom. You can see the slight overspray onto the bottoms of the head ends of the pushrod tubes, and on the bottom-facing surface of the road draft tube. Also a mismatch to the original cast silver color on the cooling ribs. Maybe this was done shortly before the sale by the PO to make the engine appear "fresher". Also, the fuel pump now on there is Brazilian (BROSOL brand cast into the body on the forward side) even though it is the correct square-top style as an original Pierburg/DVG (Deutsche Vergaser Gesellshaft = German carburetor group).

If you do decide to replace the PR tubes with single-piece ones (thereby removing the heads), I strongly recommend stainless steel ones sold by CB Performance... and then use the IVORY silicon PR tube seals. I used the SS tubes 20 yrs ago when rebuilding the 1600 engine on my Fastback, and unfortunately it has been parked all this time due to lots of rot on the body and chassis. But the PR tubes have held up completely unrusted, per my photo from 2016:

My guess as to the oil on the gen stand side of the engine, is that the thin baffle between the stand and the engine case was installed wrong, and that the 2 gaskets which are supposed to be above and below that baffle are either partly broken, or one might be missing entirely.

The cleaned engine tin which you photo'd still has the correct "medium/cloudy shine" original factory finish on the sections. I've used semi-gloss Rust-O-Leum spray paint for redoing tins that were cleaned off, but even that might be too glossy. The next lower level of shine would be satin finish; you could experiment on one of those parts, let it dry, then place it next to an unfinished but clean tin piece for direct side-by-side comparison. Defnitely don't use flat black, nor glossy black. Also realize that spray paint easily comes off with solvent. It'll hold up to engine oil though.


Thanks for all that information Rome. At some time in the past, some one spray painted the heat exchangers but didn't bother to tape off around them. The grey paint is only on the bottom of the engine near the heat exchangers and not all over the heads. I've been brushing most of it off and comes off really easy.

I have an original German Pierburg fuel pump which will eventually get installed. You don't miss a thing! Laughing

As to the Push Rod Tubes, I'm still on the fence. I have an original set of new tubes and plan to paint them with clear paint. But at this point, I don't think any of the old tubes are leaking. The oil on the old tubes appears to all be leaks from above. I would like to see nice new tubes on there but I am worried that I might have issues with the heads not coming off the cylinders. I don't want to jump in too deep and regret it. I know now's the time to address this but I'm also thinking - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Question

I will do as you suggest and experiment with the paint. The fan shroud is nice enough that I am not going to paint it. I might have to touch up a few spots here and there, but I want to keep the original finish. Hopefully I can match up the tins enough that it doesn't clash too much.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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Braukuche
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

The pushrod tubes being sold today are too long for a stock strike engine. You can make them work, but it takes some finagling. I use a socket extension to keep them centered as I torque down the heads. Otherwise they buckle up and will not seal.
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Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1973 Ghia convertible
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Trylon
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Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Somehow I have not be getting updates from your thread Marc— man you’ve gone off the deep end haven’t you!
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1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire

More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel!
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Marcdeb
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Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3009
Location: Vermont
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 68 Regatta Blue Karmann Ghia Vert 22,350 Original Miles Reply with quote

Trylon wrote:
Somehow I have not be getting updates from your thread Marc— man you’ve gone off the deep end haven’t you!


I think I've managed to not go down the rabbit hole but I feel like I could slip over the edge if I'm not careful. Especially the push rod tubes! I want to make sure I can have the car on the road by late April.
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Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
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