1964 Safari Beige Notchback Preservation

[Muthashabubu]

Could the gas pedal and/or cable be sticking or catching on something?
Maybe after years of use, something has started to wear to cause your issue?

[KylanC]

[KylanC]

[ibjack]

[KylanC]

Lol. my woes continue.. been battling a starting/battery charging issue for the past few weeks. not gonna lie its getting old. It started with the first solid storm we had here in Socal a few weeks ago. My car sat outside in the rain the whole time and ended up flooding the fresh air boxes and didn't know the drain tubes were clogged..

Next I went to start the car and all the dash lights came on and once I turned the key it cranked once and then was done.. Everything I have done so far to try and rectify this issue has seem to just be money dumped which kinda blows, but hey I guess it's one less thing to worry about down the road (for now..)

I replaced both ground straps from the battery and the transmission, replaced the battery which was only a year old and had a 2 year warranty, the starter which I had never done in the almost 6 years of owning this car. And the starter I bought is this bitchin' WOSP starter that supposedly uses less amperage and has a higher torque than the other high torque starters on the market.I also put a hard start relay on the car trying to think that maybe it would help take the stress off the ignition switch with any possible resistance in the wires from there to the starter since the car is about 60 years old.

All of this stuff and no luck.. I checked for draws within the system and came up with nothing which is a GOOD thing! I checked voltage too and the battery is anywhere from 12.1-12.4 volts after drives and having to jump it.. It's interesting too because I will charge the battery and I'll be able to start the car a handful of times and drive it around before I have to charge it again.

Some things to note, Voltage at the D+ terminal on the VR at idle is anywhere between 11.6-12.4 Volts and at 2,000 rpm's were at 15.6 volts which seems rather high.. Also, at idle the Gen.light is not on but for every accessory I turn on such as headlight switch, wipers, turn signals, etc.. the gen. light will be dim and get a little brighter with every thing I turn on and also when I increase the rpm's..

Since I checked voltage at the generator and its obviously putting out plenty of voltage I decided t pull the regulator from my squareback and put it in the notchback just for giggles.. I jumped the car and it fired right up and started checking voltage everywhere obviously with the jump the battery was now reading 12.8 from a 12.1 prior but then voltage output once warmed up from the generator was 13.4 volts and was up to 14.4-6 at 2,500 rpm's.

I drove the car around for about 15 minutes with the headlights on and my phone charging which I know won't do much for the charge but when I got back we were still at 12.8 and I also noticed no more dim red light that gets brighter when I turn things on or speed up. Soooo I'm hoping the problem is solved.. since I really can't think of anything else that would cause this..

Another note is the old regulator I had in the car (before I put the VR from my squareback) was slightly burned on the bottom in a couple spots, one was directly under the connector of the B+terminal and the other was under the D+ terminal but the worse of the burn spots was under the B+ terminal..

Like I stated, since the generator I know is working and now that I have a more consistent and proper voltage range I am really hoping that the problem with starting/ turning over the car and keeping a good charge just comes down to the voltage regulator needing to be replaced. its about the only other logical thing I can think of that could cause the issue when I know there's no draw and that generator is working.. if anybody has any other ideas of things to check that I haven't already, i am open to suggestions! electrical issues are my bane and I am trying to learn and get better at learning and resolving them myself. I'll be posting up what happens in the next few days if the problem is solved or not.
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[notchboy]

Sounds about right. Ive had to play with power issues in my 64 as well. I hope they are gone with a new Reg as well.

All that's left is an alternator. A 1500 club "No Bueno"


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[KylanC]

[KylanC]

Alright, so I sure hope I'm not speaking too soon but I let the car sit all day and I went out to read the voltage about an hour ago and the battery read 12.41 Volts. I drove the car around town tonight at various speeds for about 35 minutes with the phone charger plugged in and the headlights on (obviously since its night time ).

Voltage output at idle was about 13.2-13.4 and when I turned the car off the battery read 12.85 Volts and I was noticing it dropping a little as I had the multimeter on it. I let the car sit fr about 20 minutes and checked it again and it was at a steady 12.66 Volts and not dropping..

Gonna check it in the morning and see what it reads. On a good note, I know that it will start at 12.4 volts and I do know that the battery is getting charged while driving since voltage rose after the 35 minute drive tonight. FINGERS CROSSED that this headache is now solved!
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[KylanC]

Geez... How long am I going to be dealing with these generator issues???... I think this thread needs a new title.. Something like "Generator woes" or something like that.. THE SAGA CONTINUES!

There must be a different problem going on somewhere that I am just not seeing or thinking of. I only got about 1800 miles out of a set of brushes before my gen. light came back on in June. I swore there was a different time back in march or something that I dealt with this and didn't post about it, anyways.. Generator gave up in mid June.. only got 1800 miles out of a set of brushes.. thats NOTHING.. I decided to just throw a set in finally after driving 150 miles home with the gen. light on once I got home. Fast forward 2 weeks later to the end of June. I go for a drive out to the desert and through the mountains to take some photos and when I pulled in the garage I noticed only one of my brushes was worn down by A LOT.. That's a tell tale sign that somethings obviously up. Most likely the armature needs to be spun and cleaned up on a lathe or something. Took it to Wayne Electric here in Long Beach and $350 bucks and about a month later I had a completely rebuilt generator.. the armature was damaged.. take it home and it was working great! all I did was install and turn the car on and it was fantastic..

Fast forward to just a half hour ago. I pull the car out of the garage to give it a wash.. RED LIGHT ON... WHAT THE @!%$ I'm looking at it and with the car running both brushes are seated properly and not worn at all but the gen. is sparking pretty good. This is maybe like my 5th or 6th rebuild in a year or a year and a half.. its starting to get expensive.. AND ANNOYING AS HELL. Voltage was less than 2V at idle and when I rev the motor up it would go out but only sometimes, other times it would only dim. I checked the regulator and it was fine and everything is connected properly and the battery is new within the beginning of the year..

I'm really scratching my head at why this is a consistent issue for me. There must be something else going on that I'm not seeing or realizing.. the car is a 12v conversion. One of those special 6v looking gens. that actually puts out 12v.. Anybody have any ideas as to why my generators are only lasting a couple months if that? They're all aligned properly on the fan shroud for cooling.. I just can't think of anything else.. Suggestions? thought? Anything is appreciated, Thanks

Attached here are a few photos of how the gen. is sparking ad shooting paint onto the shrouds and dizzy as well as how the brushes look ATM

You can see in 2 of the pictures the silver paint has shot out onto the other shrouds and the distributor and plug wires.. Again any help or suggestions are appreciated.. thanks!
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[notchboy]

Paint? Or the lead from the brushes Where the brushes touch the armature should of been clean - no paint on it. All it would do is foul the brushes.

Take the brushes out, clean the contact point, then clean the armature with some fine sand paper.

See if that helps.
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[squaretobehip]

Have you been polarizing the gen during these installs / replacements?
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1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue

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[KTPhil]

How much armature endplay do you have? You'll have to take off the belt to tell. If the armature can move front to back, the brush contact area will change and chew things up at the edges. Bad bearings or faulty assembly.

[KylanC]

I took it out of the car, inspected it further and it seems as though the armature is burned up.. AGAIN.

Phil, as far as end play I am not sure what the specs are on that.

Mike, I have not polarized it since the people who rebuilt it said they already did that.

Wayne's Electric has been in business for over 60 years rebuilding starters, gens. and alternators. Was recommended to me and has many reputable reviews..

With the armature being burned every time I have to assume that its something with the car.. somewhere.. Maybe it's not the "right" 12v Battery? or maybe the Regulator is bad.. Again.. or maybe I gotta clean something else like contacts or replace some wires that might have resistance? It's times like this where I start to overthink and then think about the impossible.. what could it really be! Maybe even Belt tension!?!?!? Hell if I know at this point.
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[notchboy]

Wow that looks like ass in there

That's rebuilt?
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[KylanC]

7th generator I've had now.. randomly stopped working. I drove the car and it worked perfectly. I turned it off then turned it on 3 hours later to drive home and my generator light came on right away. Some interesting observations I had:
- Armature, field coils, brushes, and all solders appear OK and NOT WORN/BURNED
- It randomly started working again as I backed up to go home pulled over and checked the voltage again and it WAS WORKING 13v at 850rpm
-left again after checking and it STOPPED WORKING.
-Aligned properly for proper cooling
-Solid State Regulator visually appears OK and tested OK
-Battery tested OK
Trying to go back to the basics.. what can randomly make the generator stop working? If this is the 7th generator I've been through it makes me believe the problem is not the generator, but rather something that is causing it to go bad.
It's such a simple system that this is making me lose my mind..
Already dropped it off at Wayne Electric in Long Beach who specialize in rebuilds.. might just drop the car off and see what they say.. SHEESH!
I wouldn't hesitate to drive this car anywhere other than my speculation that the generator could give out at any time. Am I the only one whose had issues with generators like this?
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[Zwitterkafer]

With weird flakey problems, it is good to confirm that both the regulator and generator are grounded properly. If the generator is painted, the grounding might only be through the little nubby on the attachment strap. (Some people add a dedicated ground wire to the case screw at D-) When the engine warms the nubby contact might improve. The transmission ground strap must of course make good clean connections too.

Maybe there is a bigger underlying problem. Do I have this right: a 12V armature is being run inside a 6V generator housing? Are the field coils in the housing still 6V? (field coils for 6V and 12V are not wound the same!) What would be the wattage / amperage ratings of this modified generator, and therefore what voltage regulator should be used? Regulators must be matched properly to generators to avoid eventual problems. From the VW Typ3 service manual: "It is essential that the correct regulator is used, as a regulator for a higher output would overload the generator, and one for a lower output would not make full use of the generator output so that the current supplied would probably be insufficient to charge the battery and feed the circuits."

Frustration for sure, best o' luck with it.
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"Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC