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Alluvial Van Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2012 Posts: 131 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Hey guys, I've been having an off and on clicking noise coming from the rear of the van (I'm pretty sure the passenger side) and it was pretty bad today. The noise seems to increase and decrease with speed and is consistent whether I'm turning or not. It does seem to stop or quiet when just lightly applying the gas pedal (cruising at a constant speed) or when I put the van in neutral and coast. I'm thinking it might be the CV or possibly the wheel bearing but am not totally sure. I crawled under the van today to check the axles/cv's and noticed that the passenger side axle seems to have more play than the driver side. I'm wondering if that is causing the clicking noise and what it could be. Any input is appreciated.
Here's a video showing the play of the axles. The first side is the driver and the second is the passenger, which is the one making the noise.
Link
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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What you described fits the bill for bad cv's.
They click or knock as load is applied.
And if you find a hill to climb for a half mile or so it should really be knocking hard by the time you get to the top.
(I'm not suggesting you do that though )
Bad rear bearings would give you a change in sound as you slowly swerve side to side at, say 35 mph or so.
Btw, although it may seem tempting to go with the cheap (and pre-assembled) axle/CV combo's, you're really far better off just getting lobro cv's.
The cheapo Chinese stuff sometimes doesn't even get 1,000 miles before starting up with the clacking again. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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Alluvial Van Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2012 Posts: 131 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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That's what I thought. Would taking them apart and cleaning them alleviate the problem? |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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R.J. wrote: |
That's what I thought. Would taking them apart and cleaning them alleviate the problem? |
Short of new CV's, a good clean, repack & "reverse" should add you some miles...
- Dave _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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And btw if you flip the right axle you haven't reversed it, the rotation stays the same.
You have to swap the right axle over to the left side, and then regardless of orientation it will spin in the opposite direction. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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R.J. wrote: |
...The noise seems to increase and decrease with speed and is consistent whether I'm turning or not... |
The only time I had a CV fail there was a very noticeable difference as I went thru tight turns and either loaded or unloaded the clicking side.
As for that side to side play - seems normal to me. |
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wesitarz Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012 Posts: 1477 Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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I noticed a clicking from the rear most noticeable when driving alongside a concrete highway divider. It turned out to be the wheel bearing due to a loose axle nut. |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6379 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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First time we heard clicking, we replaced the CVs as counseled. Unknown age, full-timing, easy peasy.
Second time they were known as good, 30K miles, Lobros. A mechanic checked them when I thought they had failed a month later (it was a loose wheel from a tire repair!), disassembled and re-greased, turns out one was a hair low on grease, will do that first next time.
In our cases, the only clicking we ever heard was up hills under full load. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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rty1138 Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018 Posts: 101 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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does it sound anything like this?
Link
_________________ 1984 Vanagon GL |
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Alluvial Van Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2012 Posts: 131 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Not quite. Mine is more a clicking noise. Sounds just like in this video.
Link
Yours is more of a clunking noise. |
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RGS Paul Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007 Posts: 662 Location: Los Alamos, NM
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Posting here since I'm having a similar issue.
1987 Syncro tin-top, decoupler, ~270k miles.
Current symptom, light popping while driving under moderate load. Sounds like someone tapping their knuckles on a wood table, sort of a soft popping noise. It might go away under heavy load (or the van just gets loud), happens while driving straight and turning, maybe a slight bias to go away turning one direction. Only starts over ~30 mph, the frequency is about wheel speed. Happens coupled and decoupled. The general consensus is the noise is coming from the rear of the van.
This spring I had a rear CV go bad and pulled the axles, repacked the CV's on one axle and put a cheap replacement axle on the other side while I was waiting on a replacement CV. I also changed the transaxle oil. Almost immediately I had a light popping noise under load, I figured it was the cheapo axle and curtailed my driving. Got my new CV, long story short I refused to install it, so I ordered two new Loebro axles and installed them with new hardware. I tried to squirt extra grease in the joints since they seemed a little light on grease, there was an ok amount in there though. Popping noise remained. So I rotated tires, it changed slightly but not significantly. While rotating the tires I tried to inspect things, all the wheels spin freely and the hubs seem tight. I'm going a little crazy trying to figure this out and I don't want to destroy something trying to figure it out.
I figure with the frequency I'm hearing it's either tires, brakes, wheel bearings, or CV joints. I can't imagine something inside the transaxle would make this kind of tapping or popping noise. I assume it's not the axles since it made the noise before and after. Symptoms don't seem to match wheel bearings… Like I said, I'm thinking myself in circles and going a little crazy on this one. I just want the van back in full service.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Paul[/list] _________________ '87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4580 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Same thing with my '91 1WD. Both rear axles are new from BD within 4k miles. Got really loud and I could change the noise depending on load. When accelerating, no noise, and when letting off on the gas, it reappeared. Loose bolts at the diff on the PS. Tightened and noise has quieted way down.
So my question to you, Dave, is did the re grease solve the problem for the long term, or was there damage which required changing the CV joint after, say 4k miles?
I bought a new axle from DB, which is supposed to be better than the others. Should I swap it out now and save the trouble on a trip later, or return it for credit?
Duncan |
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Kdj Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2017 Posts: 134 Location: Naptown
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Pretty sure I made the mistake of cheaping out and buying axles sets from my local Autozone. Going to bridge day in WV couple of weekends ago developed an a awful clattering sound. At camp crawled under to find ripped outer boot. Lucky I had my old one's buried in the tool bag. swapped out and regreased was all good till about 100 miles from home, other side started clattering. Ordering 4 new OEM ASAP. Both axles only had about 1000 miles on them. live and learn! They seemed to be a good deal at the time but now, not so much! |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50261
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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The in and out axle movement is normal. If the noise is from the ends of the axles hitting the flanges you might be able to stop it by sliding the boots both in the same direction, i.e. both outward away from the centerline of the vehicle or both inward towards the centerline. This can also stop the CV's themselves from making noise, or potentially make the noise worse.
One way to get a sense to how bad the CV's are pitted is to jack the wheel up with the tranny in gear and then have someone apply torque to the wheel while you slide the axle in and out. If the CV is worn, you may be able to feel the balls dropping into the divots. Try this with the wheel torqued in both directions.
You can buy a long grease needle that you can force under the small ends of the boots and which is long enough to reach into the CV bearings. Put maybe two pumps of grease between each ball and you may be able to quiet the CV up for many miles. On my 91 Multivan which we got new, the CVs started making a racket at about 30K miles far north into British Columbia where not much in the way of parts and supplies were available. I was able to find a long grease needle and borrow a grease gun, and just pumped a Brand X lithium grease into the joints. I never tore the CV's down until the tranny died at around 240K miles IIRC, though I did add additional grease every 60K miles or so. |
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DuncanS Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013 Posts: 4580 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Thanks. Your axles which went 240k were factory, however, and my current ones are Chinese junk, I'm afraid. But it's worth the effort.
Duncan |
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RGS Paul Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007 Posts: 662 Location: Los Alamos, NM
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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Continuing to think out loud. Could a wheel bearing make noise only under engine load and predominantly while going straight? I'm skeptical that the brand new GKN axles would make the same noise as the old ones within the first mile of use, unless I didn't get something screwed in right…
At wits end, half tempted to unbolt the CV at the transaxle and take everything off from there out to rebuild… I have disk brakes to install back there, I was just hoping to do some other projects first.
Paul _________________ '87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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Igeo Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018 Posts: 888 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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The fact that installing 2 new, different axles had no effect on the noise makes me think to look elsewhere. Also, like you say, bearings don't make that kind of random noise. How about exhaust/motor mount issues? All tight in that department? _________________ 1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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RGS Paul Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007 Posts: 662 Location: Los Alamos, NM
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Clicking noise from rear. CV, wheel bearing, something else? |
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I wanted to close out my part of this diagnostic thread. It was wheel bearings, the right outer bearing was the likely culprit but there was fretting on the stub axle on both sides. Everything from the CV joint to the hub is new now with a mix of NOS and new parts. I may have messed up the drivers outer bearing during assembly so there is a chance I will be back in there in a year or so to fix it.
I will say this job is HARD and really requires a press with both of the press tools. Getting the axle nut off was easy with an electric impact wrench, disassembly was harder than I thought but not terrible in hindsight. Assembly was the challenging part without a press. I bought the tool to press in the bearings but I didn't get the tool to press in the stub axle, that's how I tweaked the outer bearing on one side. If I do it again there may be more tools and a harbor freight press in my future.
Thanks to theSamba community for making this something I was able to take on though. There are lots of little steps where it would be very easy to mess up and the topics here highlight some of the challenges.
Paul _________________ '87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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