Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim
Forum Index -> Ghia Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:58 pm    Post subject: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

22manybugs gave a really good description of how he replaced the rubber and reinstalled the window scraper. Important to note, as he does, that 1972-74 scrapers were unique.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=641223&highlight=window+scraper

I understand from his post and others that the window scraper consists of the trim, the rubber scraper and then a layer of cloth or felt. The scrapers on our 1974 coupe were so far gone, I bought whole new ones from KGPR.

My biggest question is about those scrapers and whether anyone else has experience with them. They did not fit at all. Far too wide. When put in place, I could not roll up or down the window. Not even close. Far too tight. I added washers to the bolt at the bottom of the door track (on the inside) to tip the glass away from the chrome strip. Was not enough.

Did anyone have better luck? Am I doing something wrong?

I’m won’t be near the car for a couple more weeks but I think I will have to relook those original window scraper / trim pieces and see if I can salvage them. The cloth / felt portion was disintegrated but I suppose if I can replace the rubber… I think what you’ll see is the rim and rubber. Maybe the rest won’t be visible…

Anyone else done this?

Thanks,
Matt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
runamoc Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5593
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
runamoc is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Quote:
bottom of the door track (on the inside) to tip the glass away from the chrome strip. Was not enough.


The bottom 'bolt' that holds the window regulator track to the door is an adjuster. It has a washer 'made' onto the bolt. (it doesn't come off. Don't ask me how I know)

Going by fuzzy memory here Confused Loosen the nut you see on that lower bolt holding it to the door tab. Screw the washer into or out of the track (it's threaded) and that should move the window in and out at the top.
_________________
Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Yes, I removed the nut at the bottom and added washers on the bolt behind the door tab in order to tip the window inward with the hope of making more room for the window trim and rubber scraper. I couldn’t tip the window enough. The trim is just too wide.

I was wondering if others have had the same problem and found a solution. My next option will be to try replace the rubber in the old trim even though the felt is almost completely worn away.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
runamoc Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5593
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
runamoc is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Quote:
the nut at the bottom


faded memory..still..That nut at the bottom gets loosened, there is a slot in the bolt that nut is on. Twisting that bolt(with a screwdriver in the slot) moves the track in and out. The washer (that doesn't come off) pushes against the bottom door tab holding this stuff and moves the window angle. The bottom hole on the window regulator is threaded, that bolt with the slotted head moves in and out of that thread hole. Then the nut just holds it in place
_________________
Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rob Combs
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2020
Posts: 74
Location: South Bay LA, California
Rob Combs is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Good evening OP,

Gonna go ahead and jump in here with my experience with a similar issue and attempt to correct on a `71 (one-year only doors mind you). Two felt guides per door. The repro felts are WAY too thick to allow the door window to roll up & down without breaking window winder handles. No kidding; I went through several of them.

The little clips that hold them to the door are really difficult to deal with too.

The solution for me was to line the inner edge of the window with the repro chrome/felt strip and line the outside edge under the outer scraper with some adhesive-backed felt weatherstripping I found on Amazon. Now my windows roll up and down super-smooth without grinding and scraping on bent, twisted, old, worn out felts, and no longer frozen solid between two new reproduction felts that just pinch the glass too hard.

If you're a Ghia purist this solution won't be worth exploring, so good luck. But, if you're a real-world driver of a real-world car that won't ever be in the pebble beach circuit (like mine), it might be worth looking into.

Hopefully this helps. Let me know if you'd like further details. I'm not on here as often as I used to be but I definitely feel your pain on this one. I'll try to check in every now and again...

Rob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Hey Rob,

I am interested in your solution and like yours, this is a driving car. I do not anticipate an invitation to Pebble Beach. Smile

But to make sure I understand, like you, I used on the repro felt / thin strip of chrome on the inner edge along with the push in clips. Seems to work just fine. I don’t think that’s my problem. The problem is the outer way-too-wide repro chrome/felt/rubber piece.

I’m thinking I may be able to reuse my original outer chrome strips and insert new rubber. Not sure if that will work.

However, I’d like to better understand your solution is to “…line the outside edge under the outer scraper with some adhesive-backed felt weatherstripping I found on Amazon.”

Did you use your original outer chrome strips?

Thanks for any advice,
Matt

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rob Combs
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2020
Posts: 74
Location: South Bay LA, California
Rob Combs is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Good afternoon/evening Matt,

To answer your question, yes, I did reuse my original chrome beltline moulding but replaced the outer window scraper rubber with repros from either KGPR or WCM, can't remember which I used. Thought I had some pics readily available but it seems I've deleted them. Maybe I can snap some tomorrow when I'm back with the car.

The metal strip that the outer scraper rubber mounts to is "adjustable" by bending the thin metal strip. Not sure I'm following exactly where you're having trouble, probably because the 72-74 doors are different than mine. The solution that worked for me may or may not work for you.

Is it possible for you to post a pic of where the too-thick part is interfering with your window? That might allow me to brainstorm a little and see if my solution could be worked into your door...

Rob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Hey Rob,

I don’t have great pictures. Best I have are below. I’m not near the car and only get to it about once a month so I am prepping now for my next trip.

In this first picture are the original inner felt strips at the top, and some new rubber scrapers in the middle, then at the bottom those are the old scraper assemblies.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Similar picture - piece with the blue tape at bottom is the old chrome trim with the worn fabric.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last picture is also the old trim assembly.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good news is I have new rubber. Can't remember where I bought it but I will try to use it with the old chrome.

Quote:
Is it possible for you to post a pic of where the too-thick part is interfering with your window?


No, unfortunately, I don't have a photo at this time. But its the chrome / fabric / rubber seal assembly that attaches with clips to the raised lip on the door. When installed with the clips it is pressed way too tight against the glass. In fact it doesn't want to fit at all and there is no way to move the window, even if I use the lower bolt adjustment.

Quote:
The metal strip that the outer scraper rubber mounts to is "adjustable" by bending the thin metal strip.


I think I know what you mean... but to be sure, the metal strip is the vertical piece on the outer skin of the door where the chrome and rubber mounts? Mine doesn't bend easily and I was nervous about working it too hard.

I understand you were able to reuse your old chrome with new rubber. And I had purchased some new rubber, so I will try to refurb my old chrome with new rubber next visit. Should fit...

And of course we have different year cars, but I think this is great advice.

Thanks,
Matt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Rob Combs
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2020
Posts: 74
Location: South Bay LA, California
Rob Combs is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Good morning,

Yes, I was referring to the vertical strip of metal atop the window opening in the top of the door. Seems we need to tackle the window guide path first, however...

When you are able to get back to the car, please let us know what's pinching the glass, if anything, from the other side. If the felt/chrome trim is rubbing on one side, hard enough to block the window from operating, something has to be pinching it from the other side or physically blocking the regulator. Hopefully the glass is not in direct contact with the door metal on the other side...

Forgive me if we already covered this, but if I recall correctly on your 72-74 doors there should be 4 (?) "anti-rattle" rubber/plastic buttons that fit under the chrome strip/rubber scraper about a couple inches or so further down in the door. The glass should glide between the anti-rattle buttons and the felt/chrome strip. We can deal with the outer scraper later after the glass guide issue is solved. Someone please correct me if I've got this wrong; I'm just going off memory that's not as good as it used to be.

The buttons are a bit of a pain to put (and keep) in their holes due to near-zero accessibility with the glass in. Is is possible one or more have rocked out of their hole and are now jammed in partially sideways, or not fully seated, causing it to pinch the glass more firmly than it should? They should fall out if not seated but since we can't see in there I'm just spitballing.

Another thing to watch for is the felt/chrome strip retention clips - if they hold the felt/chrome strip out too far away from the door (not fully seated in their mounting holes), that would also contribute to your problem.

In my case, I was unable to use the repro clips because they simply don't fit the holes in my doors, and there is no practical way to access the holes to enlarge them or pinch the clips down just right to get a tight fit. My door holes could be closed in from overly-thick paint, or maybe the repro clips just aren't as good as factory. I had to re-spread and reuse the factory clips on the inside where I kept the repro felt/chrome strip to get a reasonably-good fit.

Clear as mud???

Hoping this is helpful. I'm sure we'll sneak up on a solution.


Rob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

Quote:
When you are able to get back to the car, please let us know what's pinching the glass, if anything, from the other side. If the felt/chrome trim is rubbing on one side, hard enough to block the window from operating, something has to be pinching it from the other side or physically blocking the regulator. Hopefully the glass is not in direct contact with the door metal on the other side...


The glass is not in direct contact with any metal. Also working from memory here but the glass is pressed against the inner felt strip which is new aftermarket. I am convinced that the problem is the outer chrome strip. Of course just because I'm convinced, doesn't mean I'm right.

Quote:
Forgive me if we already covered this, but if I recall correctly on your 72-74 doors there should be 4 (?) "anti-rattle" rubber/plastic buttons that fit under the chrome strip/rubber scraper about a couple inches or so further down in the door. The glass should glide between the anti-rattle buttons and the felt/chrome strip. We can deal with the outer scraper later after the glass guide issue is solved. Someone please correct me if I've got this wrong; I'm just going off memory that's not as good as it used to be.


Yes, you are right, there are four. Installed and also seem to be fine, thanks to other advice here on Samba.
Quote:
Another thing to watch for is the felt/chrome strip retention clips - if they hold the felt/chrome strip out too far away from the door (not fully seated in their mounting holes), that would also contribute to your problem.

In my case, I was unable to use the repro clips because they simply don't fit the holes in my doors, and there is no practical way to access the holes to enlarge them or pinch the clips down just right to get a tight fit. My door holes could be closed in from overly-thick paint, or maybe the repro clips just aren't as good as factory. I had to re-spread and reuse the factory clips on the inside where I kept the repro felt/chrome strip to get a reasonably-good fit.


This is where I’m not sure, but I wonder if it’s a difference in the years. I am using aftermarket retention clips to attach the outer chrome/felt strips. But they don’t fit into holes... The clips fit into the felt/chrome strip and then fit onto the “vertical strip of metal atop the window opening in the top of the door” that we previously talked about... See picture below. Disregard the scratches in the top half of the picture. That's my work bench...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Rob, I appreciate the help. I will be back with the car on Friday and have the weekend to continue to figure this out and post more photos.

Thanks,
Matt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
runamoc Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 5593
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
runamoc is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

[quote="Sofia74"]Yes, I removed the nut at the bottom and added washers on the bolt behind the door tab in order to tip the window inward/quote]

Well, I found a photo of the lower adjusting bolt. The one that has the un-removable washer. Just loosen that nut and screw the stud in and out to adjust the top of the glass.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EPETREA
Samba Member


Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 391
Location: DFW TX
EPETREA is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

I also have a 74 and will be at the same point hopefully this year. I had a lot of trouble when I started to replace the felt years ago which led to a pan off resto. I do have one question and that is whether or not one could use earlier trim on the late model doors and whether or not there’s any advantages in installation/ cost. Any thoughts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Marcdeb
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3009
Location: Vermont
Marcdeb is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

EPETREA wrote:
I also have a 74 and will be at the same point hopefully this year. I had a lot of trouble when I started to replace the felt years ago which led to a pan off resto. I do have one question and that is whether or not one could use earlier trim on the late model doors and whether or not there’s any advantages in installation/ cost. Any thoughts?


The window opening on the 72 to 74 doors are completely different. It would not be very practical to modify the doors for the older style felts and chrome. Here's a link to one of the stickies in the Ghia Forum that discusses door changes over the 19 year run of the Karmann Ghia.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio

Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata

68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

OP here with a little more info.

So the original problem was aftermarket scrapers and the fact that they did not fit. I found the originals in my stash, pulled out the old rubber and put in new rubber scrapers.

These don't fit either.

I think I have a different problem. The picture below shows the plastic clips that hold the outer chrome strip in place. Yes, I compared these new clips to the originals and they are identical.

BUT even just the clips are pressed against the glass and the glass is pressed against the inner felt strip. The glass will not move. That's not right.

I hope I am just doing something wrong here.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Quote:
The solution for me was to line the inner edge of the window with the repro chrome/felt strip and line the outside edge under the outer scraper with some adhesive-backed felt weatherstripping I found on Amazon. Now my windows roll up and down super-smooth without grinding and scraping on bent, twisted, old, worn out felts, and no longer frozen solid between two new reproduction felts that just pinch the glass too hard.


Roy, I am interested in learning more about how you did this.

As always, I appreciate all advice,
Matt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sofia74
Samba Member


Joined: August 30, 2015
Posts: 565
Location: WV
Sofia74 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Problems with aftermarket 1972-74 window scrapers and trim Reply with quote

OP with a follow up request for help. The picture below shows the plastic clips that hold the outer chrome strip in place. I suspect now that the problem is not, as I had thought, with the chrome strips and scrapers but with the clips. Even just the clips are pressed against the glass and the glass is pressed against the inner felt strip. The glass will not move. That's not right.

The new clips are identical to the originals.

Have I installed them incorrectly? Please say yes and that I can fix this. I’m out of ideas.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Ghia All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.