Neal brake questions

[vanderjw]

I have NOS Neal brakes on a chassis I just got. It appears that there is room for 2 calipers on the rear brackets. I'm not familiar with this setup but assume the extra mounting spot is for a mechanical caliper for a parking brake. It has Wilwood hydraulic calipers all around. Am I correct and what calipers would fit ?Also this stuff is old and wide 5, is it even worth messing with?

[jsturtlebuggy]

Pictures of what you have would help in giving a answer to your Questions.
Neal products are of good quality.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[oprn]

All this air cooled VW stuff is old, that is WHY it is worth messing with!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[vanderjw]

[jsturtlebuggy]

Looking at your rear caliper brackets, you could use a 4 piston caliper where the other mounting ears are. That little caliper that is there now is really to small for the braking action you need. It the size you would see used for a emergency brake. Wilwood makes a 4 piston caliper that will fit on your brackets.

The fronts look like it already has a larger set of 2 piston Wilwood calipers.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[vanderjw]

[jsturtlebuggy]

This what I have on the rear of my Manx. It is a JaMar Micro Stub setup with a added Wilwood mechanical caliper for E brake. The brake caliper is a 4 piston with 4in pads.

_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[vanderjw]

Yours looks very heavy duty. The lower bracket mounts a caliper with 5.690 bolt spacing. I have been unable to find a caliper that would fit it. Not sure what they used back in the day.

[jsturtlebuggy]

Wilwood makes many different size calipers.
I think my JaMR calipers are 4-3/4 bolt spacing, comparable to a Wilwood Dynalite caliper. You could always weld and extra ear to bracket to mount a smaller bolt spacing.
My setup is using aftermarket trailing arms and is built for off road use.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[jimmyhoffa]

Yooo I have a different offset of those exact brakes. (rears at least) What are the chances!

If you ever kill a rear hub spline, the Jamar 5-bolt one is the same, you just need to make a spacer for the snout diameter difference. (Mine were $50 because the hubs where shot.)

I have the original Neal caliper brackets with crappy yellow spray paint on them if you need those for a very nominal fee. Extremely nominal.

I have a CNC so I made my own bracket for Wilwood 4-pot radials

Then I had the whole set anodized and switched the bolts to better F911 hardware with back-up nuts, and had the rotors Blanchard ground flat.

_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[vanderjw]

Nice skills! What size is the piston in the old neal caliper?

[jimmyhoffa]

It looks like the kit actually used old Aerospace Components brand calipers, with two 1.75" opposed pistons.
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[vanderjw]

The discontinued old, but unused Wilwood Dynalite with (2) 1.5 inch pistons are what i have now. I would like to at least try them before upgrading. Is there a way to calculate brake size/piston size/ master cylinder size??

[jsturtlebuggy]

A 3/4” (19mm) master cylinder is common to use with what you have.
How big of wheel and tire size are you planning on using in the rear?
It makes a difference. That small size does not work well with a larger size tire.
I know that it does work well with a 31in tall off road tire.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[vanderjw]

I was planning to use a 31 inch tire to have a meaningful first gear with my 002 box. Thanks

[jsturtlebuggy]

With that size tire and wheel combo you really need a 4 piston caliper with 4in pads to stop that mass of weight.
Those calipers were meant to be used on a 1,000lb sand buggy.
Also if your a 002 box has the 5.375 Ring&Pinion and stock gearing and want to do 65-70 MPH comfortably, a 33in tall tire works better.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[vanderjw]

I does have the 5.37 ring and pinion. I did not mention I built a warmed over reverse rotation 140 Corvair engine (304 cam, EFI and headers). It wont have any issues pulling a big tire.
Maybe I need to get smart on hydraulic cutting brakes, never knew about them until recently and maybe I could use the small Wilwood calipers for that, and get 4 piston calipers for stopping brakes?

[jimmyhoffa]

My combination is these 4-piston calipers, https://www.wilwood.com/calipers/caliperprod?itemno=120-9993 a 3/4" bore master cylinder, 3/4" bore hydraulic cutting brakes. I had both a 5/8" master and tried 5/8" cutting brakes I already had, and they don't work at all. Ratio is way off for the 4.8 in^2 piston area of those calipers.

I run Carbotech 1521 pads in the Wilwoods and they are not wearing my vintage rotors at all. I will use them forever. Many other pads are somewhat violent and will make quick work of your rare rotors. I was careful about that, especially after I had the rotors refinished. PhillipM turned me on to these pads.

As for the caliper size, I have a aluminum case VW engine, a bus box, and 31" Dick Cepeks and I would NOT want any less brake, especially on asphalt. It is a great match.
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[jsturtlebuggy]

With most steering (cutting) brakes you would use the same calipers as the normal brake system. Fluid flows right through steering brake under braking.
A thought would be to use the small calipers as a emergency brake system. Using something like a drift brake that you could lock in place would work to hold pads to rotors.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[jsturtlebuggy]

On my Meyers Manx Dual Sport I built with a 2.5L Subaru that weigh 2500lbs, I use the 4 piston calipers in the rear and 2 pistons calipers in the front with 3/4in master cylinders.
Tires were 33 in BFG KM2 and with brake setup it stoped well.
On my Meyers Manx Kick Out, VW engine, pretty much same brake setup with 31in BFG KM2 rear tires weighing 1700lbs stops even better.

_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960