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wrxnofx
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Joined: July 06, 2022
Posts: 209
Location: Richfield, MN
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 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:57 am Post subject: Alternator Shims Question |
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I had my alternator rebuilt by a local shop, got it back today, and not surprisingly they managed to lose the woodruff key. So, jumped onto jbugs to order up a freshie and noticed the 10 pack of alternator shims.
Where do these go? There weren't any on my alternator (shocker) when I removed it and the pulley from the engine. Perhaps they go on the cooling fan side which I haven't removed (yet)?
The description says to use all 10, and I guess I'm a bit confused as to why. On my 911, there are similar shims and they are used to increase/decrease the gap on the fan/alternator pulley, thereby loosening/tightening the belt. Not using all of them can result in the nut bottoming out and keeping everything loose.
Seems like a totally different design on this engine.
Can someone fill me in?
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1977 VW Type 2 Bay Window Westy FI |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51128
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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No shims on type 4 alternators, the unit's mounting allows for belt adjustment. Type 1 engines have a fixed alternator so the pulley gap is adjusted with shims to set belt tension.
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3565
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| If you still live in Richfield Mn. Why would you order a wood ruff key from J-Bugs? I would bet the Ace on Penn Ave. would have one. |
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wrxnofx
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2022
Posts: 209
Location: Richfield, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
| If you still live in Richfield Mn. Why would you order a wood ruff key from J-Bugs? I would bet the Ace on Penn Ave. would have one. |
My assumption is that this is going to be some type of metric-specific woodruff key and a local hardware store would most likely have only 'Murcah sizes.
Maybe I'm wrong - I suppose it's worth a trip over to Settergren to check it out...
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3565
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| wrxnofx wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| If you still live in Richfield Mn. Why would you order a wood ruff key from J-Bugs? I would bet the Ace on Penn Ave. would have one. |
My assumption is that this is going to be some type of metric-specific woodruff key and a local hardware store would most likely have only 'Murcah sizes.
Maybe I'm wrong - I suppose it's worth a trip over to Settergren to check it out... |
Back in my time (mid 70's) you could go to Dune Buggy Supply in Hopkins. Settergren's if I remember correctly had a good selection of hardware. |
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wrxnofx
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Joined: July 06, 2022
Posts: 209
Location: Richfield, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
| wrxnofx wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| If you still live in Richfield Mn. Why would you order a wood ruff key from J-Bugs? I would bet the Ace on Penn Ave. would have one. |
My assumption is that this is going to be some type of metric-specific woodruff key and a local hardware store would most likely have only 'Murcah sizes.
Maybe I'm wrong - I suppose it's worth a trip over to Settergren to check it out... |
Back in my time (mid 70's) you could go to Dune Buggy Supply in Hopkins. Settergren's if I remember correctly had a good selection of hardware. |
Dune Buggy Supply is no longer in Hopkins - I wish they were. Now they're out in Norwood Young America which is like 50 mins west. Driving 2 hours round trip for a $0.50 part is not gonna happen.
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3565
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| wrxnofx wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| wrxnofx wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| If you still live in Richfield Mn. Why would you order a wood ruff key from J-Bugs? I would bet the Ace on Penn Ave. would have one. |
My assumption is that this is going to be some type of metric-specific woodruff key and a local hardware store would most likely have only 'Murcah sizes.
Maybe I'm wrong - I suppose it's worth a trip over to Settergren to check it out... |
Back in my time (mid 70's) you could go to Dune Buggy Supply in Hopkins. Settergren's if I remember correctly had a good selection of hardware. |
Dune Buggy Supply is no longer in Hopkins - I wish they were. Now they're out in Norwood Young America which is like 50 mins west. Driving 2 hours round trip for a $0.50 part is not gonna happen. |
Like I said (mid 70's). Back to the point, metric keys are not an odd item. |
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germansupplyscott
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Joined: May 22, 2004
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Location: toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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If you ordered shims and a woodruff key from a dunebuggy shop I'd say there is a high likelihood the key will be incorrect for your TIV alternator. TI alternator uses a different key than a TIV.
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wrxnofx
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Joined: July 06, 2022
Posts: 209
Location: Richfield, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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Welp, I tried the local hardware store - all they had was American.
I found a woodruff key for my 911 alternator and not surprisingly it was too large.
I hate it when it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
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Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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Your local VW guy has one. Go introduce yourself. You’ll be way ahead
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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Looking at the fiche, which everyone who owns a 50 year old car should learn how to read, a T4 alternator takes a 4 x 5 mm woodruff key. Part number
N 012 708 2
Porsche uses them too so if there is a Porsche dealer in town call. Same part number.
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wrxnofx
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Joined: July 06, 2022
Posts: 209
Location: Richfield, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| SGKent wrote: |
Looking at the fiche, which everyone who owns a 50 year old car should learn how to read, a T4 alternator takes a 4 x 5 mm woodruff key. Part number
N 012 708 2
Porsche uses them too so if there is a Porsche dealer in town call. Same part number. |
Thanks, SGKent, I’ll reach out to my local Porsche dealer. Not too hip on any of the VW dealers here.
Can you point me to where I can get a copy of the fiche? I have what seems like dozens of all different types of manuals. The one that I think I have of the fiche is really hard for my eyes to read. It’s a pretty bad scan.
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Last edited by wrxnofx on Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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airschooled
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Joined: April 04, 2012
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Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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wrxnofx, if you have Instagram reach out to the Minnesota Westies group. Between the members, they know of everybody in the Twin Cities with a metric wrench.
https://www.instagram.com/minnesotawesties/
Ratwell has a pretty good late bay fiche, and excellent info on many other late bay systems.
https://www.ratwell.com/technical/Microfiche.html
Problem is he only has the drawings, not the text. Jersey Looker has excellent early bay microfiche, which sometimes show what you're looking for, and a scratchy version of the late bay 'fiche with the correct part numbers.
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/LateBaywindow/093-00-9-005.jpg
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/LateBaywindow/LateBay-Main.html
^ That's probably where SGKent got the N 012 708 2 part number.
Further Performance would also be able to get you the woodruff key, though they're a bonafide shop and will probably charge you more than Ace Hardware. You'll be able to ask them VW/Porsche questions though, and their knowledge has usually been worth the markup.
Robbie
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SGKent
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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http://www.michaelknappmann.de/bulli/michaelk/vw_bus_d/fiche/t200100.html
It is in German but the parts are easy to find if the number hasn't been deleted from the fiche. I also use Jersey but the late bay fiches there are extremely hard to make out with all the scratches on them. Sometimes a part for an early late bay, like 1972-73 may be on the early jersey site.
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wrxnofx
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Joined: July 06, 2022
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Location: Richfield, MN
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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Hey Robbie,
Really appreciate the response.
I know John, the guy who runs Minnesota Westies. I also know Tristan over at Further - he helped me with some troubleshooting I was doing.
Regarding the fiche, I'm realizing that I already have what you provided me from Jersey Looker. That is a really garbage scan. My Adobe Acrobat won't even do OCR on on it. Porsche makes their PET documents available for all models so it's really easy to do a text search and find what you're looking for rather than scanning through hundreds of pages.
In light of that, I did find an online version of the fiche that might help everyone. Looks to be a russian site, lol. But it's kind of the best of both worlds in that the images are as good as Ratwell's but the part numbers are also there. Still no easy way to search though.
Check out the alternator page here: https://www.ilcats.ru/vw/?function=getParts&ma...anguage=en
The only part I don't fully understand on this digital flavor is the different BOSCH numbers at the bottom.
There are other subgroups that have different numbers at the bottom. I'm sure they're related to certain options, but I don't know which ones are applicable to my bus.
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doug bugg
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Joined: March 08, 2003
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Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Alternator Shims Question |
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| wrxnofx wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| wrxnofx wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
| If you still live in Richfield Mn. Why would you order a wood ruff key from J-Bugs? I would bet the Ace on Penn Ave. would have one. |
My assumption is that this is going to be some type of metric-specific woodruff key and a local hardware store would most likely have only 'Murcah sizes.
Maybe I'm wrong - I suppose it's worth a trip over to Settergren to check it out... |
Back in my time (mid 70's) you could go to Dune Buggy Supply in Hopkins. Settergren's if I remember correctly had a good selection of hardware. |
Dune Buggy Supply is no longer in Hopkins - I wish they were. Now they're out in Norwood Young America which is like 50 mins west. Driving 2 hours round trip for a $0.50 part is not gonna happen. |
I had to drive out there for a foot of the blue-braided fuel brake line. You should be able to get there in thirty minutes in non-rush hour traffic. Or just call Sam and see if he'll mail it to you.
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