Suspension and beam question for best performance daily driver

[filmfolks]

Hello, first post here. old guy back in VW world after a long break.

Bought a 1970 Ghia and forking on the front beam. Price and performance parts aside:
For better driving and handling is it not better to keep a wider (stock) beam?
OR go two inches narrower for slightly wider tires?

My understanding was always to slightly lower the front and rear , keep the wide adjustable axle then choose a wheel and tire combo match.

I understand its limiting how wide a tire I can choose and im ok with it. Im aiming for a daily driver style car that takes canyons well. Obviously replacing tie rods, steering box, dampeners, bushings, shocks etc

currently the car has an adjustable beam (needs work ie replace ) and coil overs in back. this seemed a reasonable set up for pretty good handeling.

thanks all. .

[Ian Godfrey]

Hi and welcome to the Samba Ghia Forum
here are my thoughts of good handling for the least money.
Definitely keep the stock width front beam. Spend the money you save on getting custom offset steel wheels. 5 1/2" front and 6" back will be easy to fit and have a good turning circle.
At the front get an adjustable beam or drop spindles or both. Drop spindles take it down 2 1/2" and fine tune with the adjusters. User stock roller bearings in the beam, not urethane. Empi have a new forged 0 offset drop spindle: https://empius.com/products/empi-forged-b-j-drop-spindle-set-for-2-piston-caliper/
get caster shims and camber eccentrics, a 19mm front sway bar and nice oil filled shocks. Koni reds if the budget goes that far.
for the rear, new urethane torsion bar bushes. look for some porsche 924/944 23.5 torsion bars (their standard size) and maybe a sway bar. Again Koni reds.
there is also a wheel and tire thread with a lot of combos others have done.
Good luck

[jeffrey8164]

You will lose significant turning radius with dropped spindles.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[crocteau]

[Ian Godfrey]

Jeffrey8146, I was curious how drop spindles would reduce the turning radius?
if the spindles make no track change the only difference is the wheel sits 'higher' in the wheel well. I can't see how that changes how far to the left and right it can move?

[jeffrey8164]

It's because of the leading edge of the wheel. The spindle actually is higher so all the stuff that's tucked in there is riding lower in the wheel. It hits sooner as a result.

I've been chasing this Ghia suspension for decades. I'm considering a lowered beam instead but I can't find one that starts at stock height. All the vendors I've asked say they start lower and no one can tell me how much lower they start.
If I had a welder I'd do it myself.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[Ian Godfrey]

Thank you for the photos. I can see the issues you are talking about.
I had a different sway bar design that was out of the way, so for me the issue was the top of the shock towers which I cut at an angle and welded. I also had a lot of Neg camber

I think your pix and mine will give the OP food for thought.

[Olli from NJ]

jeffery8164, can I PM you about where you are placing the rubber blocks with the Quick Jack? Could I bother you for some pictures?

Olli

[filmfolks]

[filmfolks]

[Ian Godfrey]

That sounds like a good plan.
So caster...
VW specifies 3.33 deg + or - 1 deg. this give a good compromise between the weight of the steering turning at low speed and good straight line stability at high speed. Less caster = light steering but less stability at speed. More caster = heavier steering but more stability. Also, when you lower the front you lose caster, and the more you lower the more you loose.
I like more straight line stability, better cross wind stability etc and I don't worry about steering weight at parking speed. So I like 5 - 6 degrees caster. One set of shims behind the bottom beam should get you in this ball park.
By way of another related example, lot of Porsche's (rear engine) specify 8 deg caster. There is quite a difference between alignment settings for best tyre wear, light steering etc and carving corners

[filmfolks]

[Ian Godfrey]

If you are only going to have the nose a bit lower than the rear, I think 2.6 deg will be good. But you won't know until you get it aligned. Or buy a camber/caster gauge and do it yourself.
Get a pair of 100mm grade 8.8 bolts to use with the shims. The stock bolts are 90mm and are a bit short when you have the shims behind the bottom beam.

If it turns out not to be enough for good stability, it is not that hard to put in a 4deg set once you have done it once

[filmfolks]

[filmfolks]

[filmfolks]

[jeffrey8164]

I can’t speak about 944 torsion bars.
My stock bars were at 21 degrees unloaded and off the stops.
I indexed them to 19 degrees for a 1” drop. I got close. Actual drop was 1.25”.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[filmfolks]

[Ian Godfrey]

For the 23.5's I set mine up so they just slid over the stops on the torsion housing. I don't know what angle it was, but the finished ride height was about 2" lower and was good for me