Does the 36hp Air control ring fit a 40hp fan? and ring q's.

incynr8

I am pulling my 36 soon to fix up and check on somethings that are bugging me, and hope to restore the air control ring/tstat function.

My questions: if I were to locate a 40hp fan, will the 36hp air control ring still fit?

Is it better to have the ring in for air volume/velocity even if permantly open (yes i have and intend to USE the tstat), IF the tstat is not connected or failed open? Bascially is the ring better to be there regardless? Just wondering from the perpective of air flow/pressure, seems like it is a benefical forcing cone to have anyway.
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EverettB · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:08 am Post subject:

The 40hp and 36hp ring are the same.

If the thermostat is not connected, the ring will open too far and rub on the fan, make a crap load of noise and grind the ring until it grinds enough to stop rubbing and fall all the way open.

I think you actually get more air flow with the ring completely removed. The engine sounds different too.
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Lind · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:05 am Post subject:

incynr8 · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:36 am Post subject:

that was the logic I had in mind, but hard to test/tell.
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DaBraink · Samba Member Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 172

Will a 40hp setup for the control ring and tinwork fit a 1300?
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hazetguy · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject:

i think the only differences between the 36hp and stale air 40hp thermostat assembly are:
the length of the operating rod (36hp is 5mm shorter, but a 40hp rod could be threaded to work on a 36hp)
thermostat bellows bracket
the temp range of the thermostat bellows.

as far as i have seen, the rest of the big parts are the same, and are useable on either 36hp or 40hp.

by the way, make sure you have the little rubber stopper correctly installed on the throttle ring. this prevents the ring from going too far into the fan when the thermostat is properly adjusted. if no rubber stopper, the fan can go too far in and rub on or get chewed up by the fan, damaging or ruining both the fan and the ring. (oh yeah, i have plenty of NOS rubber stoppers if you need one Wink

)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=312475

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=312480

incynr8 · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject:

thanks, I will check for the stopper. Don't remember seeing one. That came in the box with the bus, so I will know, pre-motor pull. Going to have to move and get all the parts together to get this unfarked quickly...no space.

Damn I need shop space!
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EverettB · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:

EverettB · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:

hazetguy · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject:

as far as i know, and for what i can see in the parts book:

36hp is 60-65C temp range, VW part number 111 119 159, up to engine 6 120 730

40hp-> is 65-70C temp range, VW part number 111 119 159A

i think there may also be dimensional differences too, but i have not really payed much attention to that, and the ones i have are a little too buried right now to take a look at them (i will look when i get the chance). i know i have used 40hp ones on 36hp before without noticing anything strange or the engine running hot.

more thermostat info, even though it is biased towards late pancake engines:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Thermostats.html

incynr8 · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject:

Bentley says:

From chassis number 770136 an 8-9 mm rubber plug is used on the fan housing as a stop for air throttle ring.......can be service installed. The hole is there on mine for it.I have on in the 4xxxxx range. May 12th production

From Chassis 834154 opening temp of tstat was reduced from 75-80C to 65-70C. Bracket is reinforced for this reason....

Modifed bracket can be used on all engines...they must be installed together......Modified thermostat is marked with '65'

section m-4 page 5 on the newest reprint.

So I guess that is saying the bastard stuff was set to depreciate the 36hp as required as long as they were service installed together, and the stop was an improvement that made sense.
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EverettB · Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject:

incynr8 · Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:10 am Post subject:

it says fan housing, but I have the hole on the ring, so maybe they moved it?
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incynr8 · Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:09 am Post subject:

Hazetguy, sent you a PM about the stopper. I am missing it.
Al
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Stocknazi · Samba Member Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5454

mrjonny5 · Samba Member Joined: July 05, 2012 Posts: 4

Does anyone know the part number for the rubber stopper or where I can get one? Mine has perished and fallen off.

Thanks.

EverettB · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:16 am Post subject:

I have it as 111 119 185

I don't believe they are available but they do pop up in the classifieds from time to time.
If you cannot find an original, I have also seen people selling this as a substitute (not perfect though):
Part # 823 253 149

From another thread

mrjonny5 · Samba Member Joined: July 05, 2012 Posts: 4

Thanks Everett, managed to find some in the classifieds as suggested Very Happy

EverettB · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:17 am Post subject:

Yes, I didn't realize Gary still had some right now:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1244692
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hazetguy

i'd like to update my previously incorrect statements above. i did some measurements between 36hp and 40hp thermostat parts, and here's what i've found:

for future reference:

Comparing 36hp to 40hp stale air thermostat parts.
Most parts are not interchangeable due to dimensional differences.
36hp on the top, 40hp on the bottom.

Aside from the thermostat throttle ring and its mounting hardware, and the thermostat bellows (for the most part), these are the pieces that are interchangeable between 36hp and 40hp:
Tension spring, mounting hardware for pivot piece, "C" clip that holds the throttle ring pivot piece to the stud, 15mm long bolt and flat washer for the thermostat bellows.

At a quick glance, the pivot piece looks the same. However, the arm is offset differently between 36hp and 40hp.
Theoretically you can use a 36hp arm on a 40hp, but not the other way around (it will hit the engine tin).
36hp on the top, 40hp on the bottom.

Dimensionally, the thermostat throttle ring pivot piece is longer on a 40hp.

Overall length of the throttle ring pivot stud is longer on a 40hp. Threaded part is nominally longer, but the non threaded portion is longer.

36hp is shorter, and the rod is fairly straight. It also has a shorter bend at the bottom.
40hp is longer, and incorporates more bends in it.
36hp on LEFT, 40hp on RIGHT.


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Does the 36hp Air control ring fit a 40hp fan? and ring q's.
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