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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
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Location: sacramento
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 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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UPDATE
so now the engine is in my super beetle, 1.25 ratio rockers, manton chromoly pushrods, and CB merged 1.5" exhaust have all been added.
the thing just moves, I think part of that maybe the car but it is scary fast. (scary because there is nothing on the car) no windshield either!
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ALB
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Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3506
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| vugbug68 wrote: |
| wompninja wrote: |
| Web 163 - Strong power range for hot street engines. KILLER, especially if you use 1.25 rockers. Valve Lift - 0.422; Advertised Duration - 284 degrees; Actual Duration @0.50" - 249 degrees. You can get it at aircooled.net, I'm going to be putting it in my 1776 single port this summer. |
hmm my cam is a tad bigger .424 lift 286 duration its an eagle 2241, i'm going to go 1.25 rockers soon |
Although the 2 cams have about the same lift and similar advertised duration numbers, there's 9 degrees difference in the duration @ 0.050" figures (2241- 240' @ 0.050": Web163- 249' @ 0.050").Pay attention to the dur @ 0.050", the advertised duration figures don't always tell the story. Adding 1.25 rockers will give 2-3 degrees more duration as well as the extra lift, but the 163 still has 6 or 7 more degrees @ 0.050".
If you do consider a cam change, the Web163, or the W120/1.25 rocker combo (I think SRP suggested it back on the first page many moons ago now) would both be good choices. You've already found the carbs and heads like to rev to 6000 rpm; the W120 and 1.25 rockers would give good power that high (and maybe even a tad more!  ) and with the stroke of the motor you won't notice any difference in bottom end. The thing will still be a great street motor and give good mileage.
As always, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al
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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
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Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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it also depends on the case you use, later cases and AS 21 cases use 8mm head studs with case savers that have hella meat around them. so you have more clearancing to do. i'm not sure about the new brazilian cases.
76 crank with clearanced I beams in an 8mm stud case = quite a lot of clearancing, I should have had it done at a shop
74 with stock vw rods in a older 10mm stud case = just a tad by the rod bolts
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modok
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Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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I have run 74, 76, 78 with stock rods in hand clearanced case, all with A pistons.
In retrospect with 78 i should have used 5.4 or 5.5 H beams and B pistons. "A" piston is pulled spooky far out at bottom of cyl, also rods kiss cam.
76 is kinda marginal but no complaints, rounding off the heads on the rod bolts(not the nuts, the bolt heads) a little saves a ton of work, and does not do any harm. I used .100shim and .060 copper.
74 is only 1mm radial difference, but it is a little easier, used .110 shim.
Anyway I think yes, it's doable, stock rods are not too bad to fit.
In my mind 74 and 76 use stock rods and spacers,
78 you use h-beams and B pistons |
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DarthWeber
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Joined: November 24, 2007
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Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Having read this post and others like it regarding 1955cc builds, a couple of questions came to mind. Basically when using a 76mm crank you have 3 choices on rods, 1) stock german VW rod, stroker clearanced, 2) chinese I beam and 3) chinese h beam. It seems the h beam will fit with the least amount of trouble followed by the I beam and then the VW rod.
My questions are, 1) what are the actual weight differences between the 3 rods. H beams are supposed to be lightest but for a street motor that never goes over 6500RPM do you really gain anything with the weight savings in terms of longevity or mileage?
AND 2) if you had a good set of stock (not stroker clearanced) rods, rather than spend $140 - $250 on a new set of rods would it be possible to just spend $75 to stroker clearance the case and use the stock rods? Would they clear with a 76mm crank in a clearanced case?
Opinions? Ideas? Apologies to vugbug for the hijack. |
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vugbug68
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Joined: June 25, 2006
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Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| wompninja wrote: |
| Web 163 - Strong power range for hot street engines. KILLER, especially if you use 1.25 rockers. Valve Lift - 0.422; Advertised Duration - 284 degrees; Actual Duration @0.50" - 249 degrees. You can get it at aircooled.net, I'm going to be putting it in my 1776 single port this summer. |
hmm my cam is a tad bigger .424 lift 286 duration its an eagle 2241, i'm going to go 1.25 rockers soon
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wompninja
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Joined: July 06, 2008
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Location: Salt Lake City
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Web 163 - Strong power range for hot street engines. KILLER, especially if you use 1.25 rockers. Valve Lift - 0.422; Advertised Duration - 284 degrees; Actual Duration @0.50" - 249 degrees. You can get it at aircooled.net, I'm going to be putting it in my 1776 single port this summer. |
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vugbug68
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Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| wompninja wrote: |
| vugbug68 wrote: |
yeah, if they made a cam between the 110 and 120 i would have went with that, the heads are mildly ported, and i matched the manifolds to the ports myself, i think i might try some 1.25 rockers eventually.
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The Web 163 is between 110 & 120 and goes great with 1.25 rockers. |
really? what are the specs on it? I'm pretty happy with my cam, i de-tuned my carbs and probably gained 20 hp between 2500-4000 rpm, at least it feels like it!
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| oldcrow66 wrote: |
| I am getting ready to build my first engine. Going from a stock 1600 sp to probably a 1776cc dp with a similar set up. This was actually really helpful. Thanks! |
glad it helped you out, i learned alot just reading these forums.
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wompninja
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| vugbug68 wrote: |
yeah, if they made a cam between the 110 and 120 i would have went with that, the heads are mildly ported, and i matched the manifolds to the ports myself, i think i might try some 1.25 rockers eventually.
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The Web 163 is between 110 & 120 and goes great with 1.25 rockers. |
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DarthWeber
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Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7542
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| oldcrow66 wrote: |
| to probably a 1776cc dp with a similar set up. |
So does that mean you'll also include a 76mm crankshaft??? |
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oldcrow66
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Joined: December 15, 2009
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Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I am getting ready to build my first engine. Going from a stock 1600 sp to probably a 1776cc dp with a similar set up. This was actually really helpful. Thanks! |
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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i'm not done messing with the motor yet, i need to see what it likes. a better exhaust, 1.25 rockers, and different venturi's/jets for the webers. i might try a different distributor too.
I'm about to pull the motor and re-torque the heads and re-gap plugs. maybe i'll throw on some 1.25 rockers and new pushrods while i'm at it.
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DarthWeber
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| vugbug68 wrote: |
| yeah, if they made a cam between the 110 and 120 i would have went with that, the heads are mildly ported, and i matched the manifolds to the ports myself, i think i might try some 1.25 rockers eventually. |
With almost 2 liters displacement, ported big valve heads and dual Webers your motor can easily handle more cam. That's why a lot of the 1955cc builds go with the 120/1.25 combo. You experienced first hand the difference in changing from dual single barrels to port on port carburation, much smoother yet with the capability to extend the rev range. That, combined with the added displacement, will cover the added duration of a 120 cam and prevent a soggy bottom end yet allow the motor to rev the extra 500 to 1000 RPM's. It's easy to overcam a motor but so many 1955's have been built with the 120 cam, with good results, I think it's a proven combo for a great street motor. |
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ALB
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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 You have to keep your eyes open if you're going to play! Seriously, glad to hear it's running well. And Happy New Year! Al
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:26 am Post subject: |
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got a speeding ticket....  clocked at 82mph
i told the cop to check his radar gun cuz Bugs can't go that fast, he didn't buy it
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, if they made a cam between the 110 and 120 i would have went with that, the heads are mildly ported, and i matched the manifolds to the ports myself, i think i might try some 1.25 rockers eventually.
i didn't want to put freeze plugs in the shroud since i'm planning on heater boxes in the future, i like the looks of the hose and wanted to plug the holes in the tin as well. (the main reason for the guinness can lol) all i know is that my head temp barely gets over 300 F when i'm mashing it!!
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ALB
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| vugbug68 wrote: |
| ALB wrote: |
Great to hear it's running well! How high does it rev with power? I'm asking because I'm interested in the range of the CB2241 cam. Specifically, it will rev higher, but where does the power start to fall off? Did you use stock or 1.25 rockers?
Congratulations! Al |
i used stock rockers, I think its a good all around cam, has good idle, good midrange and good top end till about 5500ish where it starts to level off. I think with the webers I could have went with a tad bigger cam, those things will rev past 6000 |
The 2241 is a mild cam (240 degrees duration @ 0.050") and while you could have gone a little lumpier, you have built a great, trouble free, drive any where motor. Looking back in the post I saw some 40x35 heads; were they ported? If they are and you (sometime in the future) get the itch for a little more out of it you could put in some 1.25 rockers. You'll get about .060" more lift (so you'll be using more of the flow the heads are designed for) and a couple of degrees more duration; the motor will run just a little stronger all around without any loss in reliability.
And it's amazing how well these motors work when all the tin is there and all holes are plugged off like they're supposed to; although I find it interesting how you connected the shroud heater outlets. If you run the car during the winter and have trouble getting the motor up to proper operating temp letting some of that air into the engine compartment may help....
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I put the rest of the stuff on it today, the heater hoses just connect to each other under the tin (brought my head temp down about 25 degrees).
my engine is representing:
Germany
Italy
Brazil
U.S.
China
and of course Ireland 
Thanks to everyone on this post who helped me out!
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vugbug68
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ALB wrote: |
Great to hear it's running well! How high does it rev with power? I'm asking because I'm interested in the range of the CB2241 cam. Specifically, it will rev higher, but where does the power start to fall off? Did you use stock or 1.25 rockers?
Congratulations! Al |
i used stock rockers, I think its a good all around cam, has good idle, good midrange and good top end till about 5500ish where it starts to level off. I think with the webers I could have went with a tad bigger cam, those things will rev past 6000
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