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Pascal
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
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 Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Nice work! By the way, I sent my transaxle away to get rebuilt and Rancho said that my repair looked really good after I told them what I had done. So you should be good! 
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'84 Westy - 2.2wbx, GT Torque-Biasing Differential
'91 EA Cabby |
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michaelasnider
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2013
Posts: 380
Location: East Kootenays, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| michaelasnider wrote: |
| Pascal wrote: |
| michaelasnider wrote: |
Were you able to remove the slinger without removing the bellhousing? Mine is loose, and I don’t see how you’d get a hold of it to pull it out without removing the bellhousing. How have your repair held up?
Thanks |
This was a while ago...I don't remember how I got it out, but I did not have to remove the bellhousing. I probably just used something to get behind the lip of it, like some dental pick, and pulled it out.
It has held up just fine. My tranny is actually at Rancho getting freshened up and a LSD put in. Maybe they will comment on my fix. If it was an issue I'll let you know.
Pascal |
Thanks Pascal. Knowing it could come out that way was mostly what I need to know so that I wasn't wasting my time. Was able to pull it out with magnets and some patience. Currently have the JB weld setting up in the same manner you used. |
It was a bit of a pain to get out, but managed it using some magnets to slowly pull it out. Repaired and reinstalled.
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michaelasnider
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2013
Posts: 380
Location: East Kootenays, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Pascal wrote: |
| michaelasnider wrote: |
Were you able to remove the slinger without removing the bellhousing? Mine is loose, and I don’t see how you’d get a hold of it to pull it out without removing the bellhousing. How have your repair held up?
Thanks |
This was a while ago...I don't remember how I got it out, but I did not have to remove the bellhousing. I probably just used something to get behind the lip of it, like some dental pick, and pulled it out.
It has held up just fine. My tranny is actually at Rancho getting freshened up and a LSD put in. Maybe they will comment on my fix. If it was an issue I'll let you know.
Pascal |
Thanks Pascal. Knowing it could come out that way was mostly what I need to know so that I wasn't wasting my time. Was able to pull it out with magnets and some patience. Currently have the JB weld setting up in the same manner you used. |
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Pascal
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| michaelasnider wrote: |
Were you able to remove the slinger without removing the bellhousing? Mine is loose, and I don’t see how you’d get a hold of it to pull it out without removing the bellhousing. How have your repair held up?
Thanks |
This was a while ago...I don't remember how I got it out, but I did not have to remove the bellhousing. I probably just used something to get behind the lip of it, like some dental pick, and pulled it out.
It has held up just fine. My tranny is actually at Rancho getting freshened up and a LSD put in. Maybe they will comment on my fix. If it was an issue I'll let you know.
Pascal
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'84 Westy - 2.2wbx, GT Torque-Biasing Differential
'91 EA Cabby |
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michaelasnider
Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2013
Posts: 380
Location: East Kootenays, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Pascal wrote: |
Here is my fix.
Cleaning with brake cleaner
JB Weld on
Held into place while JB Weld sets.
All fixed...I hope
I just don't understand how come it comes loose in the first place. |
Were you able to remove the slinger without removing the bellhousing? Mine is loose, and I don’t see how you’d get a hold of it to pull it out without removing the bellhousing. How have your repair held up?
Thanks |
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unclegee
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2013
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Hey Fellas, thanks so much for the responses!
She is a gasser and yep, I've got to clean up the input shaft, flywheel bore and pull what's left of the pilot bearing outer race from the crank-end, and there was no sign of the felt ring!
But on the bright side, a parcel arrived this morning with a new slinger (which will need peening and chemical metal'ing!) new pilot bearing, crank & input shaft seals, bell housing gasket and, of course, felt ring. I guess my Sunday is going to be pretty busy!
Thanks again, Grant
PS, a very happy Independence Day to you all too! |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10131
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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| unclegee wrote: |
| What do you think could have caused this failure and what damage should I be worried about in the transmission? |
If you have a gasser, was the felt ring installed properly in the flywheel? If not, then the chain of events was likely that dust from the clutch friction surfaces got into the pilot bearing and caused it to fail prematurely, etc, etc...
You should worry about the slinger, the input shaft seal, and the end of the input shaft.
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I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
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Gnarlodious 
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2013
Posts: 2408
Location: Adobe Jungle USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Happened to me when the pilot bearing spun out. Take a close look at the tip of the input shaft, and look in the flywheel center with a flashlight or borescope.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8523
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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^^^ Typical failure mode, all for want of grease...
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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unclegee
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2013
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Hi Guys,
Here in the UK, I couldn't find any information on the oil slinger and nobody seemed to know anything about it, so with only one supplier stocking replacements, finding this fantastic post was a Godsend!
Although I reckon it's the through hole in the bell housing that has worn, I have a new slinger on order, though I think my real problem stems from the pilot bearing. It has totally disintegrated leaving just the outer race in the crank end and a 'smear' on the end of the input shaft.
What do you think could have caused this failure and what damage should I be worried about in the transmission?
Regards,
Grant |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Aha, OK, so that is another good reason to remove the bellhousing on the bench - I can check out these slingers......
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10131
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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No, that is the thowout bearing guide tube. Behind the guide tube and the seal that is behind the guide tube is where the slinger resides. It pokes into the inside of the transmission. It's easiest to see with the bell housing removed.
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I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Is that a link to an "oil slinger"? ^^^
Can I locate them on these boxes?
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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I guess I could find (look for) these on my 3 spare DMs?
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10131
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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More recently I found that oversize replacements are available here: https://www.vw-t3-bus-shop.de/en/shaft-bushing-clu...production
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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It's a pity those pics no longer exist, but anyway I will certainly check this out once there.... thanks!
| ?Waldo? wrote: |
A "soapbox" I've been preaching from for a while now is "always check the oil slinger before installing a tranny". After coming across another premature failure, this one less than 18 months after a very prominent, and expensive shop "fixed" the whole clutch system (after a seemingly catastrophic failure), I feel like perhaps a pictorial would be helpful. It is a seemingly inconsequential part and yet can cause an incredible amount of expense in both labor and materials and often does.
The awl in the following picture is pointing to the slinger:
The input shaft oil slinger is a metal sleeve that resides behind the input shaft seal in the transmission. It has a spiral flute or thread on it's inner surface. It should be a press fit into the bell housing. It's purpose is to "sling" tranny fluid away from the input shaft seal and extend it's life. It does so in the following manner. The input shaft, while spinning, gets the tranny fluid to spin around it. The flute of the slinger is oriented so that with the clockwise rotation of engine and input shaft, the spinning motion of the tranny fluid, forces the fluid away from the seal. Quite ingenious really.
What goes wrong is that on occasion the slinger becomes loosened from it's press fit in the bell housing. This is most often caused by a failure of the pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. The failure of the pilot bearing allows the input shaft to flop around excessively. In turn, the flopping input shaft hits the slinger and in short order frees it from it's press fit. As an aside, I feel the premature failure of pilot bearings is quite frequently caused by the removal of the felt ring in the flywheel which prevents the clutch dust from ruining the pilot bearing rollers. Although, the pilot bearing might be fine, I always check the slinger as the last mechanic to install the pilot bearing might not have.
Once the slinger is no longer a press fit in the bell housing, it is no longer a help, but rather a cause of destruction. The flute of the slinger is oriented such that once it is no longer held in the bell housing, the tranny fluid, instead of being slug away from the seal, now actually spins the slinger and throws it AT the seal, chewing up the back of it. Once the input shaft seal is sufficiently chewed, it will leak tranny lube, often significantly. I have actually seen where it got on the clutch and actually caused (coupled with stupid driving techniques) the explosion of the clutch disc.
I ALWAYS CHECK THE SLINGER IN THE BELL HOUSING PRIOR TO INSTALLING A TRANSMISSION!! YOU SHOULD TOO!!
That's worth repeating.
I ALWAYS CHECK THE SLINGER IN THE BELL HOUSING PRIOR TO INSTALLING A TRANSMISSION!! YOU SHOULD TOO!!
The check is simple. Remove the input shaft seal (a seal puller or sheet metal screws and a couple pry bars are good methods, IMO) and use a small pic or eyeglasses screwdriver to pry on the slinger. If it moves, IT MUST BE ADDRESSED to avoid significant costs in parts and labor in the very near future.
To address the failure, I remove the bell housing from the transmission (6 bolts in the clutch housing area and 4 below m8 - 13mm heads), I remove the slinger, peen the surface that should hold it so that the press fit is restored, clean the various surfaces with brake cleaner and JBWeld it in place. I feel that the combination of the JBWeld and peens is a permanent fix.
Here is the surface that needs to be peened:
Use a punch to make dimples. Although the dimples depress the metal further, the edges of the dimples cause the metal to raise and will grip the slinger.
Here is a picture of the surface after being peened:
After I'm convinced the press fit is restored, I mix up some JBWeld, slather it on the peened surface and the face that is in the direction of the flywheel and hammer in the slinger. Once the gasket surface is cleaned thoroughly and the JBWeld has set up, then the bell housing can be installed on the transmission. I use a very thin coating of Permatex on both the tranny and bell housing mating surfaces and torque them together.
Here's one shot on the tranny side:
And here's one on the clutch side:
I would add that this is a VERY COMMON failure. Probably half of the transmissions I've removed have had a flopping slinger accompanied with a leaky input shaft seal.
Once more just for good measure:
I ALWAYS CHECK THE SLINGER IN THE BELL HOUSING PRIOR TO INSTALLING A TRANSMISSION!! YOU SHOULD TOO!!
Andrew |
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xflyer
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2006
Posts: 320
Location: SOCAL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Engineering talk would call the part an "oil return thread". Most everyone that has worked on vans before 1972 model year and all air cooled bugs will be familiar with this as it used on the crankshaft pulley.
Only difference is, on the pulley the thread turns, and on the transaxle the shaft turns. The oil does not care about this and is happy to be 'screwed' back to where it belongs.
One other cause of the needle pilot bearing to wear out/fail is "riding the clutch". Whenever the clutch pedal is pushed down, even part way, there is relative motion between the crankshaft and the transaxle input shaft. Hence the pilot bearing is turning. When the clutch is fully engaged, foot off the pedal, there is no motion and the bearing will probably last forever.
Where this can go wrong is drivers that come to a stop sign or red light and wait with the trans in gear and the clutch pedal pushed down. Then the pilot bearing is spinning the whole time. This will wear that bearing out much quicker than waiting in neutral.
When I was working on these full time, whenever the engine or trans was out the pilot bearing was inspected. If it was found good it was lubed with bearing grease and the felt 'seal' that fits in the flywhl was checked to make sure it was there.
Whenever a clutch was replaced pilot bearing was also changed. Old one can be removed by filling end of crank with thick grease and tapping close fitting shaft into bearing. Bearing will pop right out or add more grease.
I used an old input shaft.
Also I have seen quite a few of the pilot bearings completely destroyed with the needles falling out and rusty. Worst case is the needles jam around the input shaft then clutch does not matter because shaft is stuck to crank. Very hard to drive or shift.
When the bearing is this bad a rotary tool can be used to grind away part of the outer race in the crank. Then the bearing will come out as there is no more press fit.
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1989 Campmobile, 1984 7 passenger beater Vanagon
Both with cool A/C |
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Frankie Pintado
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Lake of the Woods, VA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Earlier today I was replacing the the clutch on my '85 gl. This being my first time having the trans out on a vanagon, I just planned on replacing the input shaft seal and rear main seal. The input shaft seal was wrong. Annoyed, I left the trans out to wait for the correct one. Now I'm reading this and thinking this may have been a good thing. I'll be checking it when I get back. Thanks.
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1972 Karmann Ghia, 1985 Vanagon GL, 1989 Cabriolet |
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benandmj
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2012
Posts: 550
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix It. |
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Excellent info here. I do wish Mr. Libby's pics were visible. I'm not looking forward to diving in to this...
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85 Westfalia Weekender
91 Syncro Westy |
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vanonimous
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2013
Posts: 366
Location: Burien, Center of the Universe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Slinger-What It Is, What Can Happen, and How To Fix |
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Thanks for posting this. I happened to be at the input side of transmission of my syncro looking for things to fix when I stumbled upon this. My slinger seems firmly in place and pilot bearing hasn't failed but I wonder what is life span of the pilot bearing?
What does this felt piece look like I don't see one here? Has someone made anything better other then sealed pilot bearing?
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If happiness is being a mechanic, owning a Vanagon is nirvana.
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