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Impressive small displacement combo (chassis dyno eval)
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Quokka42
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's nice.

Proves once again that where you make power is more important than peak power.

Our top speedway engine builder here in Oz has the top winners, but trouble getting customers - because the peak HP on his engines can be 3% or more less than the competition. He has a hard time explaining, even to seasoned and professional drivers, that they spend most of their time below the rpm of peak HP and at less than full throttle.

But I'm getting older and not eager to spend all my time driving chasing the power band with close ratio gears...

I remember the name Raby from way back, and I understand you gotta make a living, but I love aircooled engines and even the challenge of wringing the most from such a difficult platform as the type 1. But that's the luxury of doing this for pleasure, rather than business.
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be real happy with that. Nice.
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theastronaut
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small update, I took it to our 1/8 mile track last night to see what it would run. Was only able to make one run- 9.96 @ 67.79 mph with a 2.100 60 foot, 6.351 330 foot. I ran against my buddy's 96 Z28; he ran 9.2x at 77 mph with a 2.2x. 60 foot. Had quite a few people come up and ask what I was running and all were surprised that it was that small of a small motor with stock stroke and unported stock heads. I'll go back and see if I can cut any time off with some practice, though that felt like a pretty good run. I'll take my camera too and upload a vid.
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ralf
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ouch!
hahaha
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SRP1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I learned a long time ago about internet conduct, is that the "keyboard" has and always will lack emotional intent.
It's hard at times to tell where a person is coming from, or how they mean for their statements to be interpreted.
I have to remind myself of this frequently, and that not everyone is out for each other.
Then again there are those few who have to be special... Rolling Eyes......... Smile
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ralf
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuey, i agree thru the net, humor and sarcasm sounds filterd and doesnt get across well.. not that i was being sarcastic ,


the astronaut, all good Smile i can see how it sounded like if i did read it quickly too...

mark, its always gramers fault! , but she made good brownies LOL!
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been told a lot of stuff dont come across as it is ment to.some times it's the spellen, sometimes the reader, somtime it's the typer,I've even been told it's gramers fault, but shes died 3 years ago so I dont see how that could be. I think a lot of it is like what burt renolds said to sally field in smokey&the bandit. it depends on who is saying it and where there standing when they say it, or somethen like that. things are phraised differently all over the place,and sometimes missunderstood. sort of like , would you help jack feed the horse,then help jack ride the horse, then will you help jack oh well you get the pic.no need for panties to get in a wad.(unless your the horse)
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theastronaut
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem ralf, I read it quickly and took it the wrong way, my appologies. I understand what you mean by saying that now. I shouldn't have jumped to a quick conclusion like that. Embarassed
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Chuey
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On other forums (BMW motorcycle, specifically) it is common practice to write something the way ralf did.

I took it to be a roundabout way of saying, "What a deal, I'll take them off your hands." but much more creatively. Sarcasm, or being ironic doesn't come over the ethernet perfectly sometimes.

Chuey
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ralf
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theastronaut wrote:
Ralf, that comment was uncalled for. I said I was happy with the engine as it is. I didn't know that it had stock heads but it's no big deal, it's runs great like it is. I'm not upset and nobody else needs to be.

Jake I get where you're coming from, and I mean no offense by saying this, but if you hadn't been "tight lipped" about what parts were changed from the original parts list on page one, there wouldn't be any confusion now. Again, I'm fine with what's in it, and that's really all that matters.

Guys, let's not make this something it isn't. I'm a satisfied customer, and have no problems with Jake or with the engine. I guess I should have PM'd him first about the heads being different instead of saying anything here. I honestly just wanted anybody to be able to replicate the engine like it is; it's an awesome little engine.


no no no...

so sorry if that comment came about the wrong way guys,

1 ...from where i am/living.. a decent type1 cylinder head (factory )
thats not brand new, is next to impossible to find.
so i was kidding with the "POS" term on the head jake offerd
as its the opposite if it was offerd to me (seeing where i live)

2 ...no disrespect to Jake on that, sorry if that came in the wrong way?
actually cant see how that rubbed off the wrong way

3 ...astronaut def no disrespect to you too, as Mark tucker pointed out
you two show integrity , by jake offering the heads
and you not taking them since the current heads arent having
any issues at all, and it made wat it made (powerwise)
ps- still hoping you'd get done with the crank polishing work Smile


- again sorry guys for the comment, i didnt mean it that way hehehe
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OLD VW NUT
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That video reminds me of the 64 deluxe I had for so many years. I had a lot of motors in it. I had a 1641 in it that sounded very much like that. It had dual Kadrons and stock DP heads ported and polished by me using the Bill Fisher hotrod book for VWs. I flycut the heads .125" (good gas in the early 70s) and ended up with a calculated compression of 10.7:1. I had to saw off one fin from the head to get the cylinders to seat. I used a hydraulic cam and lifters made by Norris. Excellent combination. The car could do in excess of 100 mph. The first 90 mph were fairly easy - the last 20 or so not so easy since the VW isn't exactly aerodynamic.

I've build bigger motors but that was such an easy motor to drive - it was just loads of fun. My wife loved it as much as she hated some of the others I built before and after. It was as easy as a stock motor to drive - easier in fact since it could take off in second gear with little more clutch slippage than first. The 4.37 rear gears in the 64 really worked well with that motor.
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly forgot that they were changed and the difference in performance wasn't even enough to report back with.I was simply trying to let my nephew see what changes can impact an engine. Trying to teach him about the next level of understanding is the only reason why this engine was ever reassembled..

Not till today did I even realize the heads were swapped. I had to look it up.

Oh well.
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theastronaut
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ralf, that comment was uncalled for. I said I was happy with the engine as it is. I didn't know that it had stock heads but it's no big deal, it's runs great like it is. I'm not upset and nobody else needs to be.

Jake I get where you're coming from, and I mean no offense by saying this, but if you hadn't been "tight lipped" about what parts were changed from the original parts list on page one, there wouldn't be any confusion now. Again, I'm fine with what's in it, and that's really all that matters.

Guys, let's not make this something it isn't. I'm a satisfied customer, and have no problems with Jake or with the engine. I guess I should have PM'd him first about the heads being different instead of saying anything here. I honestly just wanted anybody to be able to replicate the engine like it is; it's an awesome little engine.
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Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce

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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

integrity is when you effup and you can tell all about it and what you did to remedy it,nobodys perfect, and things wear out.you cannot forsee the future on a gulp of water in the crabs mouth.things are over looked when there normaly not a problem,is that rong?no.just another thing to learn from. you cant always stand behind everything or if you do you might want to do it at a distance, far behind, as some guys can fuck up any thing in a hurry either doing nothing or trying to do something.Ive seen them my whole life,the more you help them the deeper it seems they get, thus build the best you can, give good instructions(althou they wont fallow them you tried) and keep the lines of comunication open&flowing.fu you bought it and you effed it up ,just dont get it.but there are a lot out there that do that.and some scam on what there doing even post false pics after the thing go's south trying to cover thier ass,well thats usualy seen right through after the fact.
I can understand jake branching out and looking to the future.thats a smart thing to do. offering to send a new set of heads is outstanding,and the nut not taking the heads is also outstanding, they both have integrity and it shows.
I can tell you we all cant be perfect at this stuff.Like my motor seeping a little oil last year&I tore it down to reseal&have a looksee.everything looked like new,some parts have over 70000 miles on them,the case was only a year old,but gess what?? the dam thing still has the seep,after about 8 months the oil level hasent droped, but it does get an oilycrap on a small aera on the lower case sump aera, the same effing place as before.so gess whats up next to do with it? ohfucking well it's a VW.they leek, mine isant what I would consider a leek, but it is.it appers to be copming from a lower stud/nut just forward of the sump flange from what I can see between the sump &case.I hate oil leeks.even on wore out stuff.&im standing behind it.....and letting it seep/weep.and thats ok.
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This engine used more than one set of heads.. It also used more than one CR, induction, exhaust and oil system.

I sold the engine for less than what the parts inside it were worth. This thread is a reminder of why we should never sell any test gear or ever divulge any information at all. (and people wonder how and why I became a tight lipped asshole)
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hill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ralf wrote:
well jake send me those POS t1 heads LOL!!


Nice!

So he simply was mistaken about what heads were on the engine that began this thread? Does this throw out the dyno and driving reports?
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ralf
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well jake send me those POS t1 heads LOL!!
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theastronaut
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake Raby wrote:
Shoot me your mailing address, Astronaut.. I have a brand new set of bare 041 head castings that I'll send to you to use with the engine when it goes back together.

They are the last T1 parts on this property and you can put them to good use. We will ship them after summer shutdown, when we return on July 9.

Thats right, they are free.


I appreciate the offer, but I'm happy with the heads that are on it now. I bought the engine as-is, and I have no regrets of buying it even with the cam bearing problem. The heads are ready to go back on it now, and I'm planning on having it back in the car while I'm off work next week. Besides, I'd have to have the 041's flycut/CC'd to get the compression back up to where it is now. Stock 35.5/32 valves will support a little over 100 hp so I don' think the stock heads are too much of a restriction.

Since you're on the subject, what do you think of smoothing the transition from port to valve seat on the stock heads? That's one spot that I think could be improved without losing any air speed through the port.

I didn't mean to stir anything up by posting that the heads weren't 041's; just wanted anyone trying to replicate the build to have the correct parts list so they would have the same results. I don't think a small engine would benefit much from bigger valve/port heads without killing the torque it makes on the bottom end.
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoot me your mailing address, Astronaut.. I have a brand new set of bare 041 head castings that I'll send to you to use with the engine when it goes back together.

They are the last T1 parts on this property and you can put them to good use. We will ship them after summer shutdown, when we return on July 9.

Thats right, they are free.
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theastronaut
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustBuggy wrote:


What kind of HP would this engine get if a turbo were added?


Im thinking about doing that after I recover from a spending spree on my '66 C10! I think 150-160 at the wheels is doable if I can keep the intake temps down, use a reliable ignition retard, and keep the AFR's in check under boost. I would most likely keep the 36 DRLAs on it and set them up for boost, like CB's hidden turbo kit.
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-Sir Henry Royce, co-founder of Rolls-Royce

'64 Beetle Sunroof OG Bahama Blue
'63 Beetle Vert
'66 Beetle
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'89 Festiva L
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